oscarsear Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I became interested in tubes awhile back so I got some. Started with a Jolida 502b, which I found to be too noisy, then obtained a Cary SLI-80. Been flippin tubes but still could not get the kind of bass I recalled getting from my old Klipschorns. So I figure maybe its the new Khorns...I get bass but the volume needs to be too loud (for me anyway). So I'm toying with the idea of a sub-woofer. I get to have a conversation with Mr. Vandersteen himself who tells me that if I'm not getting enough bass from Klipschorns that I need tone controls..which, of course the Cary doesn't have. Long story short I need to send the Cary in for some warranty work. So I break out the Adcom SS pre and amp I used to use with my old Khorns. BINGO...BANGO...theres my bass, even set neutral. It's not as defined as the Cary but these new Khorns are dancing with the Adcom. Now I'm befuddled...but somewhat more enlightened. I guess it's a nice problem to have. Anyone else have a similar experience?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tglahn17 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Hi, I listen to vinyl only. I have a TNT 3.5, JMW 12.5, Dynavector Karat 17D2, Dynavector P-75, Adcom GFP-565 pre, and Monitor Audio Silver Studio 8is. All of this used to be powered by an Adcom GFA-555II. It didn't sound too bad at all. But the 555II kept blowing out my speakers and sounded a little screechy at high levels. Then I got Bottlehead Parabee 300B SE tubes amps about a year ago. I will never go back to solid state. The sound is like real maple syrup htting the butter on top of a stack of pancakes. Even though the Monitor Audios are only 90 dB sensitive, the sound fills my room. The bass really impresses me. I'd always heard before that tube amps give weak bass, but when I spin the Level 42, the bass is thumping like a gay disco. Still, there are times when I want to go to "eleven". I'm looking for some RF-7s. Then I'll never leave my apartment. Or at least never buy any more audio gear. Later, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Oscar I posted the same results a few weeks ago..I had the "lack of bass" with my all tube setup..so I queried the knowledgeble group here, and got many different opinions/suggestions..but here's the bottom line for me. With all SS gear (Adcom, like you) I got more bass with a higher wattage..but there's nothing like (to my ears) tube gear for that "musical" feeling. I believe in tone controls, and my vintage Scott 130 provides that, and I like the sound of my SET300B amp (8 watts a side)..with the tone controls I get pretty good bass..but remember, if the recordings don't have bass when mixed, you won't have bass when played. Garbage in, garbage out. Klipschorns also put out a true bass with the folded horn, unlike the "in your face" bass of radiating speakers. If you want the "thump" get a sub..but be prepared for the sub to "cover' some delicate passages..it's a trade off, at least that's what I've found. More than anything, I think the room your stereo setup is in is the biggest variable. I know it's that way in my room. But I'm trying to figure out some good room treatments.. Anyway, it's a fun ride, if your wallet holds up! But it's all about the music enjoyment right? Regards, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 ---------------- On 6/30/2005 1:09:02 AM tglahn17 wrote: I'd always heard before that tube amps give weak bass, but when I spin the Level 42, the bass is thumping like a gay disco. Still, there are times when I want to go to "eleven". ---------------- And that's where the gay disco comes in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I found the same problem with my Klipschorns when I ran them with inexpensive Jolida integrated tube amplifiers. Nice sound but soft bass. The problem was fixed when I inserted a solid state integrated amplifier (Atoll Electronique IN50) into the system. Instant bass fix. Not all tube amps sound soft in the bass. Some, like the Audio Research VSi55 offer solid state bass power with that tube sound that most horn speaker owners crave. Very nice. I've also heard good things about the VRD monoblocs from Forum members who own the Klipschorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 just one word ... Bi-Amp .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 ---------------- On 6/30/2005 3:18:21 AM fini wrote: ---------------- On 6/30/2005 1:09:02 AM tglahn17 wrote: I'd always heard before that tube amps give weak bass, but when I spin the Level 42, the bass is thumping like a gay disco. Still, there are times when I want to go to "eleven". ---------------- And that's where the gay disco comes in... ---------------- fini, C'mon man...I'm drinking the morning cup of coffee here.....all over the keyboard! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 You just need the right tube preamp and power amps the bass will be there in spades. I personally have never heard a Cary or stock Jolida amplifier I liked. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 ---------------- On 6/30/2005 3:18:21 AM fini wrote: ---------------- On 6/30/2005 1:09:02 AM tglahn17 wrote: I'd always heard before that tube amps give weak bass, but when I spin the Level 42, the bass is thumping like a gay disco. Still, there are times when I want to go to "eleven". ---------------- And that's where the gay disco comes in... ---------------- no...he's still 58 short Woo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I have a friend who likes the sound of my 300B SET but he prefers the solid state bass because that is what he has been listening to for years. For him hereseys and solid state are a perfect match he says instrument seperation isn't as good or clear as on my system but he loves the exagerated bass of solid state. I think he would really like more powerful tube amps but there are isn't an audio shop around here that has tube gear to demo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 First, the Khorn bass is as lean and accurate a bass response as a string bass, it is not the bloated booms of too much amplified bass. So it takes some getting used to. Also, although deep and accurate, it is not the incredible push that modern bass reflex and subwoofers. Although the Khorn impedance curve is quite benign towards tube amplifiers, rising up to 30-ohms in the mid-range, like all loudspeakers, it drops down in the bass region. This gives tube amplifiers a hard time, unless they have massive and expensive transformers. Solid-state amplifiers, even low powered ones, do not have this challenge. None of the few Ive seriously auditioned, in my own home, with my own equipment, for EnjoyTheMusic.com, had any problems driving the bass (of course some do it better than others) compared to smaller tube amplifiers. Bi-amping with an electronic crossover is one, tricky and costly solution. Since the Khorn does reach down to 30Hz and since subwoofers are bundled solutions with solid-state amplifiers and crossovers, I choose that route (OK, I tried bi-amping briefly.) The problem with most powerful subwoofers is that they also have plenty of output in the low bass range and can easily intrude on the Khorns own natural sound. Therefore, after years with the KSW and LF-10 models, I upgraded to a wonderful ACI Titan, with a very steep crossover slope. I still have to dial it back for accurate (flat) critical response, but it is wonderful for music and movies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky65s Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 how about digital? Redwine audio;tremendous value for your buck.Vinnie will whip you up whatever you need,great detail,tight,with plenty of punch for your khorns.My clari-t amp replaced my mac 2100 ss and my dynaco st 70 amps.Nothing to lose also with his return policy(just shipping,which is minimal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted June 30, 2005 Author Share Posted June 30, 2005 Thnx everyone. Colin...very interesting. Your solution is what led me to my visit w/Vandersteen. Do you use 2 subs or one? My Cary is integrated but does offer an active sub-output. Right now the next direction I'm headed in is toward the Accuphase E-530 SS integrated. Would love to find one in the secondary (they're damn costly) and I'm hoping to get the detail plus tone controls. Thnx again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.