gibby214 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Are they like tank's lots of power with no detail? I have been finding myself checking out all of the gear at live bands lately. Mostly small venue 300-1000 in the audience. Last show I went to , Felt like I was getting kicked in the chest with each hit of the kick drum. It was great and it didn't seem that loud. (like ears ringing all night). Do you guy's with Cornwalls etc. have this effect in your home when you rock out? Or is this only reached with BIG QSC, Crest or Crown AMP's and Big EV, or Peavey Speakers and passive subs? I am just amazed when I hear 3000 wats of power are going to each monitor. Those watts add up quickly. The reason I bring it up is that I am interested in the digital Carver amps like minnMale uses. Then build the system up from there. Gib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenorman Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Last week there was a thread on the QSC PLX amps. The general concensus seemed to be favorable, enough so that I have decided to try it out for myself. The new amp should be arriving sometime the end of this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Let me begin by observing that we are mixing LOTS of mixed images and mixed/erroneous cause & effect, etc.!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I am not going to try to break this all down, but suffice it to say that megawatts of amplifier power is not necessarily what creates the visceral experience (SPL) that you 'feel'. Efficiency of a particular speaker has more to do with this then the wattage supplied. Pro gear can be good or it might not not be an optimal investment, but it depends what you are looking for. A primary consideration in pro gear is QoS - it should not go down during operation. However, to say all pro gear is equal or that it is better then commercial gear is rather absurd, just as saying all commercial home gear is equal. By the way, low frequencies will not do the kinds of hearing damage that mid and high frequencies will (at <120 dB), and while I am not suggesting stupid or irresponsible behavior, ringing is generally a function of the exposure to excessive MF-HFs. (refer to the House Ear/Hearing Institute for more info on tinnitus, etc.) SOME pro gear is excellent. But do you necessarily want or need a Crown Macro-Tech MA-5002 or other series of pro amp? Personally I love the Crown gear and have several macro-tech amps, but do you need them to run your LaScalas or your smaller series non-heritage speakers!? Will you realize any appreciable benefit? Are the qualities that are used in pro gear beneficial to home applications? And I have dealt with them all over the years in SR on nearly every rig and as many studio applications as one can imagine. But I would not necessarily recommend the average person run out and buy any of them. On a case-by-case basis, some benefit can be realized. But in many, you are buying qualities that may be rather superfluous to your needs and goals. So, before you suddenly decide you need a SR rig for your living room (and before you do that, buy a set of LaScalas!), identify what you are trying to achieve. The design goals for pro and commercial home gear are often not the same, and the various trade offs not advantageous to your needs. Again, some pro quality gear is fantastic, and even more is junk for the critical home listener. Just as most home gear would not last a week on the road or while driving the complex loads wide open that is often required. On the other hand, some gear such as the TC Electronics digital delays, etc. can make an incredible difference in a system IF one knows exactly what they are doing. So stop and decide exactly what your criterion is. Most likely, you will find little need for the pro series gear that cannot be done better and less expensively with home gear. Moreover, if you are simply after the visceral punch of high SPLs (WITHIN reason!) - go with the LaScalas or KHorns and a good quality amp, be it SS or tube. You dont need pro gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I have an eq that is commonly used for both live venues and studio recording purposes. I will say that it is one of the quietest units I've heard to date. Even compared to a family member's SAE 2800b. FWIW- Those of you that were at the Pilgrimage this year and went to the Jazz Kitchen that night, there were two of them mounted in the racks behind the counter in the back of the room. (dbx 1231) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnBob Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Yeah, what Dragonfyr said. Remember too, sound reinforcement equipment is designed for creating sound, while home equipment is meant to reproduce it. A lot of SR systems get that punch in the chest sound by having a peak around 90 hz. or so - about where the average chest cavity resonates. The old JBL "scoops" were famous for this. Plus a lot of SR systems have another peak in the upper midrange so that vocals will cut through the mix. Plus there is the matter of "psycho-acoustics," which makes things sound better than they really do when you are distracted by other stimuli - like the picture in a movie, or the performers on stage. In short, there is some fine SR equipment out there, and I'm sure that it could be quite servicable in a home setting. But there are tradeoffs that have to be made for the high power, high output, high amount of physical abuse conditions SR equipment is generally designed to shrug off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 So stop and decide exactly what your criterion is. Most likely, you will find little need for the pro series gear that cannot be done better and less expensively with home gear. Moreover, if you are simply after the visceral punch of high SPLs (WITHIN reason!) - go with the LaScalas or KHorns and a good quality amp, be it SS or tube. You dont need pro gear. ---------------- I have had a different experience. QSC 1202 amp ~$600 and Behringer DEQ2496 $250. Hard to beat these prices with home gear. Morover, it appears that Carver took their pro am ~$800 or so, added a quieter fan and RCA's and now sells it for ~$1800 as a home amp. (I am going by memory when I was researching my QSC purchase). AND, my Khorns love the dynamic headroom. I really did not expect this at all, but the bass increased dramatically with the extra power. (BTW, the QSC boosts bass when the low frequency filter is on, I have mine off, thus no low frewuency boost at ~100 hz). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I'm using a DBX 1231, same as Tom B. mentions. I think that pro gear carefully chosen can certainly fit a home application acceptably. Personally, in my quest for bigger live sound, I seem to look at certain types of pro gear from time to time and more often. For those who don't regularly attend concerts and hear the latest large venue pro systems, they can be excellent when adjusted correctly. What I heard this year at the 96 Rock stage at Music Midtown in Atlanta was one of the best sound systems I've ever heard, bar none. I still think that the big Heritage can hang in there from a speaker standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 The Pro gear is tempting as the prices are right compared to the other stuff. There are also lots of people happy with their Pro gear being used in a home application from what I have "read". I have been researching possibilities for amplification and enjoy what users have to say. Interesting replies above regarding the details of such equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 some of the design criteria (and thus dollar composition) of pro gear is different than home gear resulting in features that will not be used or emphasis on performance factors that will not result in better sound, or with systems that are not fully compatible and/or optimized for home systems...BUT in there is definately some great sounding pro gear out there, one should plan to audition pro gear as well as home gear before deciding on one or the other. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Just FYI for anyone wanting a pro amp. I replaced the high output fan in my QSC with a low output model for under $20 and it is so quiet that I had to put my ear to the back of the amp to see if it was working. The XLR cables were also just as easy to solder up as regular RCA's (if you make your own interconnects, if not, this is not an issue). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 my Crown Com-Techs don't even require a fan for most use ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Most pro amps and associated equipment have higher noise floors than audiophile gear, and louder ambient (fan) noise. SOunds like some of you have addressed these issues however. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibby214 Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 Thank you all for you honesst opinion. Does anyone know if the QSC 1202 is a digital tripath amp like the Carver Pro ZR1000? I looked up the specs but it did not say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 ---------------- On 7/13/2005 11:51:00 AM gibby214 wrote: Thank you all for you honesst opinion. Does anyone know if the QSC 1202 is a digital tripath amp like the Carver Pro ZR1000? I looked up the specs but it did not say. ---------------- I own one but do not know. I think it is stated as an "A/B" whatever that means. I bought it on Dean's reccomendation and am very happy with it. Although the stock fan is quiet, you will want to change it out with a low noise unit. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Digital Tripath ... in a Pro amp ..?? not in this century the smaller QSC series are class ab .. the larger ones class h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 ---------------- On 7/13/2005 5:40:59 PM Duke Spinner wrote: Digital Tripath ... in a Pro amp ..?? not in this century the smaller QSC series are class ab .. the larger ones class h ---------------- What exactly is class a/b? It is a digital amp, isn't it? (But with a different chip than the tripath). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfyr Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 ---------------- On 7/13/2005 7:41:31 PM tigerwoodKhorns wrote: ---------------- On 7/13/2005 5:40:59 PM Duke Spinner wrote: Digital Tripath ... in a Pro amp ..?? not in this century the smaller QSC series are class ab .. the larger ones class h---------------- You beat me to it! What exactly is class a/b? It is a digital amp, isn't it? (But with a different chip than the tripath). Chris ---------------- Here is a simple description http://www.diyaudio.com/wiki/index.php?page=Amplifier+Classes - there are better more complex descriptions of the topology if you like, but maybe this will answer a few basic questions without turning this thread into a discussion of amoifier topologies. Digital? They use solid state components, but no, they are not 'digital'. Tripath? Tripath sounds like some trademarked marketing description, as it is not a topology I ever studied! (Class T?) And at the risk of OVER generalizing, I would steer away from the low end PRO (correction! Thanks!) amps for both home use AND pro applications. They may be fine for a DJ, but their duty cycles and other specs are barely adequate for even club applications! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 Dragonbuddy means "pro" amps... like Gemini, Pyle Pro , and that other imported crap sold as "pro'amps that couldn't better the spec's of car stereo .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 sorry but the tripath chipset IS used in pro gear, just one example is the Carver ZR series, VERY nice pro amps using digital amplification. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 sorry, Sal just not in the cheap stuff .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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