Need some advice with some lascalas.

[dp1954]

Hey guys.

I need some thoughts, info and recommendations on some

lascalas I have purchased. You can see them on ebay as

item #5792099623. Really nice folks. Heres the deal..

they have 2 pair and I have the choice on which pair I want. I need some help deciding. First pair are 1983s with AL crossovers and are in very good condition. Second

pair are 91's with AL3 crossovers. Now I've heard that

the AL crossovers suck but the AL3's are pretty good.

The 91's have a nick on the front of one of the bass bins.

Otherwise they too are very good. Both pair have sequential serial numbers. My thoughts lead me to want the

83's because I think, and may be wrong that they have

better drivers. The nick is no big deal on the 91's and

could be fixed easily. If I purchase the 83's I will

upgrade the crossovers to AA unless this is an issue. Is

it? I am meeting these folks on saturday to pick them up

and would like to decide by Thursday so that I can let

them know. They sold them to me outside of ebay and have

been paid for. Nice folks, talked to them several times

and appeared honest so I took the chance. Any advice,

recommendations or help would be helpful. If you guys

don't mind how about looking at them on ebay and letting

me know what you think. they don't post the serial numbers

or type but they are birch stained mahogony and I have

all of the other info. I paid 1100 for either pair and

felt it was a fair deal. I appreciate any help you lascala

guys can give me. If I choose the 83's I'll go ahead and

buy the crossovers. I've seen Bob Crites on ebay for 250

and I have heard of several guys on the board who build

them. I'd like to talk with them also. Not sure if the

91's will need upgraded but that probably wouldn't hurt

either. thanks

Dave

[dp1954]

Any response guys? Give me some info. which ones

are the best? now I've almost decided on the AL3's and hate to be wishy washy with the sellers.

I need to let them know so that they can pack them

for shipping. they are going to meet me halfway but they want to wrap them properly for the ride. what you guys think? 91's or 83's.

AL vs AL3's. I did a search on crossovers for

lascalas on the board and the ones I saw pretty

much prefer the AL3's. But are the 83's better?

And can I just put some new AA crossovers in them

without changing drivers?

Thanks Just trying to learn all I can. Love my

cornwalls and don't want to be disappointed with

these. I know they'll sound different which is

what I want but I want the best pair.

Dave

[pauln]

Twice you wrote that they are nice folks. You also think they are honest. To be quite clear, selling outside the ebay auction violates the agreement they made as sellers on ebay. So keep in mind that they are not strictly honest. I'm not saying they will cheat you, but be careful - when someone like yourself appears to be too well convinced of an unknown's honesty I wonder if they are the object of a confidance man. Be careful - oh wait - you already paid them?

Hope all goes well.

edit - Yipes, I just looked - Seller has 0 feedback!

[pauln]

Bump (never bumped before, this may be the time)

[scriven]

Most people wait more than 10 minutes!

[scriven]

First, welcome to the forum!

I have never owned Las but since no one else seems to be responding to your questions I will put my $0.02 in the pot.

From what I have read here the AL3s are better xovers than the ALs. If you are going to get new xovers for whever pair you get then it doesnt matter.

I don't know why you think the '83s might have better drivers. I the conversion from alnico to ceramic was complete at least a couple years earlier so I would not expect that much difference in the drivers. Could you be more specific?

You don't need to buy the upgraded xovers on ebay. You can get a hold of Bob on this forum - his moniker is BEC.

Good Luck!

[dragonfyr]

"They sold them to me outside of ebay and have

been paid for ($1100!). Nice folks, talked to them several times

and appeared honest so I took the chance. "

I don't mean to sound mean, but this is not a smart deal! And you are worried about which speakers to keep!? I would be getting my posterior up there post haste to see if you have speakers to be worried about!

Let's see, not mentioning what has already been mentioned, you paid $1100 in advance for something that you are going to pick up? Seems like a small down payment of earnest money might have made ALOT more sense! Heck, a fraction of this holds the deal on a large house!

If these folks aren't scam artists, you are begging them to be! And if they don't show up? Your claim will be that they ran an ad and you talked to them on the phone!? This has the earmarks of a perfect crime! With the exception that the police would laugh at you if you tried to file this as a crime!

I wish you the best of luck, as this is all you are running on!!!!!

Folks, regardless of how nice someone sounds, NEVER pay for anything up front with no ironclad ENFORCEABLE guarantee! And if buying large ticket items on EBay or anywhere else where you cannot inspect and take possession of the item at the time of sale, PLEASE use www.escrow.com and cover your (and the other party's) rear!

[dkp]

Well, if you like the nicer looking pair and want the AL-3 crossover in the other pair, 1) would the sellers be willing to simply swap the crossovers and 2) is this adviseable?

Good luck!

David

[Deang]

It was a contributing factor towards why I bought new when I decided to go to the Klipschorn. eBay gives me the willies.

[dp1954]

Hey Guys.

Does sound kind of like a dumbass idea to pay up

front but I didn't mention that I had a friend

who lives in richmond check them out and they are

for real. He said both pairs are very good and

the nick is no big deal. he heard both pairs but

he said he doesn't have a preference on the sound.

I just wanted some help guys.. heck I'm a grown

man and know better. Thanks for the critism. I

may look dumb but I aint. all I wanted was some

sound advice from somebody with experience in these speakers. I have owned other Klipsch but not the lascalas. And they had no problem with me paying on pickup. I wanted to use paypal to pay

them with and it was easier to have the transaction

done by the time they met me with them. Thanks

for the welcome. Just gives me the warm and fuzzies. No wonder I don't post often.

Thanks

Dave

And scriven. thanks for the help.

[Deang]

Ah c'mon Dave, everyone was just trying to look out for ya. Hey, we didn't know you had them checked out already.

If the '83's are using the AL network, then they are late '83's, and both set of LaScalas are probably loaded up with the same drivers. I initially said to buy the newer ones, but I suppose you should buy the pair that are in the nicest physical condition. You are probably going to end up addressing the networks either way.

[dp1954]

Thanks Deang.

Maybe I was a little harsh and I do understand the

concerns but I ain't stupid. I didn't get where I am

today by passing my money out to strangers. Just kind

of pissed me off. I just need some real advice and I

believe I will follow yours. Actually I was leaning

towards the 83's to begin with but after reading the posts

on the crossover types for lascalas in a prior posting I

about made up my mind to go with the AL3's. I do appreciate

your advice.

Thanks

Dave

[tubby]

I have the AL3 in mine. Best speakers I've ever owned.

[J.4knee]

OK first decide can you live with the nick in them. I cannot tell from the pictures how bad it really is or if any underlying issues contributed to it. All things being equal the AL3 is a better network than the AL. The driver compliment should be the same but the 91s should have K 401 vice K 400 horn lenses. If I were to base my choice solely on that Id get the 91s. But if the chip is any indicator of a deeper issue get the 83s and build or order a set of ALK universal A networks for them. I have ALK's in my 84's and I love them.

[dp1954]

Hey.

To scriven, dkp, deang, tubby and j4knee many thanks for the info you

gave me. I decided on the 91's AL3's. The buddy who looked at them

said it wasn't a gouge just a rub where the finish had been wiped off.

No problem with just touching them up. And to you pauleane, anybody

who waits 10 minutes to bump a post trying to point someone out as a

fool has absolutely no class.

to the rest of you guys thanks.

Dave

I'm picking them up at noon on saturday. After i have a chance to spend

some time with them I'll let you know what I think and how I feel they

compare to the corns.

[Kevmosmith]

For me, I would go for the 91's. The crossover is great and it should have to composite horn in the mid range.

Good luck,

Kevin

[Colin]

Since he is there, is he doing the pick-up? If so, then have him find out what the drivers are and if they are the same, get the newer ones or the better looking cabinet, you know it is only $1100, why not get all four, stack them or start a HT and keep the brothers and sisters together!

[pauln]

I was not trying to make you out to be a fool. I guess I'm the fool for not knowing about proper bumping.

I read your post about a large advance full payment to a zero feedback seller you did not know. I make no excuses and take full responsibility for my response, of which I am proud.

Paul

ps

Just for the record - I've got more class than Gomer Pyle, Richard Nixon, and Mic Jagger rolled up together!

[IndyKlipschFan]

You said: "Thanks for the welcome. Just gives me the warm and fuzzies. No wonder I don't post often."

Well let us get to know you too. We were IMO looking out for you, and in general just stating the obvious that eBay is scary out of ebay policies, and people that do this get taken... Often!!

It was not till later posts you said a friend visited them and you have some "trust" established.. I can't even begin to tell you how many horror stories we have heard off of here so everyones posts were justified..

That said.. Whew...

I have 8 la scalas going to use 7 of them in a HT under construction now. I will agree with most on here the AL-3 networks sound wonderful too. When people mention rope calk this is a treatment to deaden the ring if you have them on metal horns (mids) if yours is metal. Mine are composit (plastic) and do not ring, but a good thing to do if yours are metal.

x over wise... KEEP THE AL-3's

BEC -Bob Crites, if your at all un satisfied with how they sound is probably your first stop just to see if your x overs are within specs. He can test them for you and "re fix" them back to original specs as they were intended.

DeanG - ALK x overs are the next jump up or sideways depending on who you ask. A lot of happy customers here, too. Both seem to be great guys (I have met DeanG very nice guy with a big heart and a love for Klipsch too.) They are up front with their intent to maximise your La Scalas. They use higher end parts in the networks, some really say it is just amazing!

Amplification will make the biggest improvement or point out the worst in La Scalas. I do not know what you have, so hard to give advice here..

My 2 cents.. Pick the best cabinets that fit in your situation looks wise assuming your not going to have to re stain/ finish them. If your using this for 2 channel only your gonna LOVE La Scalas. Mid level SPL's on up volume wise just AMAZING speakers... Period.

If your looking for a HT situation, your going to need to go with Subs which can be a whole nother topic. Look for more La Scalas and all with the same networks too. (very key point.. keep em all the same Timbre wise..) The people at the Klipsch weekend got to hear the new Klipsch THX subs/ Klipsch Amp controler with the La Scalas. I think everyone had the "wow" factor going too.

[dp1954]

Hey Guys.

Maybe I was a little harsh but I stand by my criticism of certain things. Ive lurked

on the forum for years gaining any info I could. Maybe I should give you some back

ground on myself so that at least you can get a feel of who I am and what my experience

level is. I know its taken you guys awhile to get to know and trust each other. I should

expect no less This may be a little long winded but Ill be as short as I can.

I have loved music for as long as I can remember. Ive been playing guitar for 37 years

so my music ear is pretty good. I know what I like. But everybody likes and has

different tastes. Each to his own. When I was in college at NC State in the mid 70s

I was at a frat rushweek party where I heard a pair of speakers that I was never able to

get out of my head. They had a label that I couldnt decipher and nobody seemed to

know what they were. That sound was the best Id ever heard and Ive been on the

search ever since. Just to get to the quick of it I now know that they were cornwalls.

they had the pie emblem and thats why I couldnt make out what brand they were.

After school I went to work and when I got to a point that I could begin to afford a few things I started on my stereo ventures. Ive had corals, universities, infinities, sansuis, bics, cerwin vegas, martin logans, advents, ar3s(almost thought these were what I was

looking for but not quite), jbl L100s and 4312s and gasp even bose 501s and 301s.

My amps included a cheap technics that I cant remember the model of, sansui g7500,

G9000, and g9700, marantz 2325 and 2370 and the pioneer sx1280 I am now going

to sell.

The first klipsch I purchased were a pair of kg3.5s off of ubid.com that I only paid

about 100 bucks for the pair. To be honest I thought they sucked but liked the horns and

buying them led me to this forum. Next I purchased a pair of rf3s and damn now I

was headed in the right direction! Not quite there but in the ballpark, So next I

picked up a pair of klf20s on ebay at a decent price . Off the subject here with a quick

note but I have brought a lot of equipment off ebay and only got burnt once(I know

Ive been lucky). If there has ever been any substantial cost involved I have either

used escrow or my credit card either through paypal or the seller if they are set up

to handle them. You aint gonna get any help from paypal but by using the credit

card the one time I got burnt I reported the problem to the cc company and they

gave me my money back and went after the guy who ripped me off. So on that

side of things Ive been lucky.

Now back to the story. The klf20s were really good speakers and sounded great

through the pioneer. So good that I went out on ebay and picked up another pair

of the klf20s and sold the rf3s. Boy was I cookin then but just not that sound I

was looking for. Next stop was a pair of Chorus Is that I also purchased on ebay

and had shipped to me. Got here with no problems and I really like them. I

gave one pair of the klf20s to my dad so that I still had 2 pair of speakers. Not

into home theater at all and this way I can have stereo with different sounds. I

like to play around.

I kept hearing on the forum about these speakers that everybody seemed to love

and ran across a pair at a good price that were in good shape. These were my

first cornwalls and I had finally found the sound that I was looking for. Then I

starting hearing about the differences in tubes vs ss with the heritage series and

I just had to try that to. I purchased an eico hf81 also on ebay that had been rebuilt

and the sound really came alive. No other speakers types will do for me in this life and

I am now only interested in tubes. For me I have found that I prefer the sound of the

El84 tubes vs the others that I have tried. I also own a fisher 500c with 7591s and

a bogen rp235 with 7408s. On top of these I have a scott 222(some refer to it as a

222a although there is no number designation on it) and a scott 222c both using el84s.

I found another pair of cornwalls on audiogon about 1 year ago that were in really

good shape and bought them at a fair price. When I got them home and unpacked them

youd swear that they had just come out of the factory. Not a mark on them,

Just perfect. My choruss and these new corns had black grills while my first pair

cf corns had cane grills. Wife likes things to match, space limits in my music

room limit me to 2 pair so I sold the pair with the cane grills to gary here on the

forum about a year or so ago. I still regret that since they were my first. The pair

of cornwalls I have now will go with me to my grave.

When I met gary for pickup of the corns I sold him we had a chance to eat lunch together and talk for a short while. Id been hearing about the fully hornloaded sound.

This is one of the things we talked about. Ive never heard a pair of belles, lascalas or

Khorns. He owned corns at the time and seemed to like them as much as me but he

had heard khorns and told me that the difference was pretty significant and worth

the purchase of a pair. This was just before he got the pair of Khorns he has now. There is just no way I can put a pair of khorns in my house. Its a fully restored 1850

plantation home with a boiler furnace and radiators in any usable corner. Cant

put false corners in because of the heat from the radiators.. So I decided to go with

the next best thing.. either belles or lascalas. I missed budmans belles on the forum

because I hadnt been around in a while but saw them when he listed them on ebay.

We talked and I told him that I would take them if they didnt meet reserve. He was

able to get what he wanted out of them so I was happy for him, sad for me. Id rather

have the belles for aesthetic reasons but the pair of las I purchased were too good to

turn down. A little more info on the guy selling them.. They (both) pair have been

in his family since new. His father bought the first pair and he the second. They

were always lovingly cared for and are birch with a walnut stain. Walnut is my

preferred color but to be honest I thought these looked mahogany. He also has a

pair of cornwalls. He and his wife just purchased a smaller home and dont have

the room for them anymore. He feels as bad as I would having to get rid of them

but he is going to keep his corns. I had a friend who was a roommate of mine

in college check them out and all was good. He said both pairs are in excellent

condition. He prefers electrostats so he couldnt tell me which pair sounded the

best. He did say that they both sounded better than his stuff. The scratch is

negligible so I am going with the newer pair with the AL3s. The sellers have 0

feedback on ebay but if you check It out they have been members since feb 04. I

dont believe anybody could hang around that long, ripping people off, and still

have accounts on ebay. They just like to look and havent found anything they

were looking for.

I work for Bellsouth as a database manager, my first kids through college, second

(and last) one in high school. I plan on retiring right where Im at and dont

plan on ever moving from this house. Im trying to maneuver myself into being

able to retire when my son finishes college in hopefully 7 years. These lascalas

are the last pair of speakers I ever intend to buy. Im sure Ill play more some with the electronics but the sound of what I have tingles my ears like none other. Just

replaced my furnace this past spring so moving the radiators arent an option for

opening up any corners. I just hope that I like the lascalas as much as I do the

cornwalls. If not Ill sell them and just pick up another pair of corns.

Sorry this is soooo long. You can be assured you wont get any post out of me

even approaching this in the future. I work on computers day in and out and

dont like to spend a lot of my spare time at home typing on the computer. I

cant get broadband forum sites through our firewalls anymore so I am limited to

the time I lurk at night. For those who were just trying to look out for my benefit

I do appreciate it. I consider myself a pretty severe hobbiest but in NO way an audiopile. I like all kinds of music and my music room is 20x20 with 10ft ceilings. Best to all.

Dave