HDBRbuilder Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Traditional oil finish is a boiled linseed oil finish(normally with some kind of dye/stain/fast-drying agents added). Tung oil is a completely different kind of finish. It is also an old tried and true finish...but it is NOT a traditional oil type of finish...it is more akin to a wipe-on varnish than an oil....you should be able to see that immediately, since its first application acts as a sealer, needing a light sanding...and its successive coats provide a HARD finish...very unlike an oil finish, but still a good type of finish!! Tung oil finishes have become very popular over the years for LIGHTER colored woods where an easy to use wipe on finish is wanted...but they don't do well on darker tighter grained woods like walnut...because they tend to pronounce the grain in dark woods kinda weirdly!! On lighter colored woods, with loose grain structure, they are fine though!! If I was gonna use an oil finish, it would be a linseed oil finish...if I wanted a harder type of finish that is pretty much maintenance free and has some better waterproofing capability, I would go with a satin urethane finish. I personally abhor high gloss finishes of ANY KIND!!...especially on a fine veneer!! ONLY IF THE HIGH GLOSS IS ACHIEVED BY TRADITIONAL HANDRUBBING OF AN OIL FINISH, DO I APPROVE OF ITS GLOSS!!...and nobody does it like that anymore...but at one time they certainly did!! And it requires intensive maintenance to keep a high gloss oil finish in a high gloss mode!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 HDR- Whatever happened to the old fashioned traditional "varnishes"?..not Spar varnish..Not polyurethane or shellacs..not lacquer. not oils... I'm talking about the finish that "breathes"...yes you do get water marks...but they disappear with time and alcohol never permanently permeates. Red Devil used to make one of the more popular brands..I'd sell a pair of extremely cute cord crunching cats for a quart or two...tee hee.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placido Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 HDBR: Unaware of the effects of lemon oil, I've used "old english" on my Heresy II's for 16 years. Last week, I noticed that the veneer on the left (front) edge of one speaker is beggining to unglue. How can I repair this? Besides ceasing the use of lemon oil, is there anything that can be done to slow or reverse the glue deterioration process? I've also used this oil on the Fortes and KG2's, but have not found discrepancies yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 Cluless...I know what you mean. I used to like the Red Devil brand varnishes too...but it seams that the polyurethane varnishes have pretty much taken over and the older types of varnishes are getting increasingly hard to find. Varnish is such a loosely defined term...it includes so many different kinds of finishes...and its definition has changed so many times over the years. As for glue separations...you can go to the other thread in here about that and I recently gave a possible "how to" on those kind of repairs for both glue separations and spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 ---------------- On 11/2/2002 8:40:58 PM Cut-Throat wrote: I don't know if tung oil is traditional or not, but I have used it with great results on many wood projects. And I have got to believe it is traditional for some folks in some parts of the world. ---------------- It's been around for ~1000 years. Comes from the Tung tree (surprize). It best for wood surfaces that get wet (teak for example). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 I think the issue or technology is not being defined clearly here. We're not really answering the question because everything is a bit muddled. One question seems to assume the owner has a good finish to be maintained, or an old finish which needs some help. What can be done to preserve the finish, without adding a new layer? To my understanding, basically nothing. The finish may be based on lindseed oil or tung or a type of plastic. It has solidified and sits there. The lemon oil stuff from a bottle is just mineral oil with lemon fragrance. It may clean and leave a sheen until it evaporates. But it doesn't rejuvinate what is there. Gun oil, Watco, wax, may very well do a good job. None the less, they are adding a layer. There is no reason to avoid this if done properly. On exception may be Formby rejuvinating products. I understand they might reconsolidate a finish which is very deteriorated. I've not used it. It sounds more radical than I'd try. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 John...I already said tung oil is an old time favorite finish...and it is an oil finish...but it certainly IS NOT the traditional linseed oil finish that Klipsch originally used on its speakers.... Tung oil is a finish that hardens and gives some waterproofing...and when you feel it... it is the finish you feel, but NOT the wood it is on...unlike a boiled linseed oil finish or a walnut oil finish...where you feel the wood itself when you touch it...very different from tung oil finishes...very different!!! For high gloss finish using boiled linseed oil or walnut oil...it is best to flood the wood, let it sit for a few minutes, then wipe it down...getting most of the oil off...let it sit overnite to let it set in, then repeat the process, but take 400-600 grit sandpaper and lightly sand the finish...this allows some of the sanding dust to act as a pore filler on the wood...especially helpful if the wood is burl or something like that...then give it another rubbing treatment with the linseed oil...for getting a high gloss shine from boiled linseed oil it is best to use the heel of the hand as the rubbing source...but people seldom want to go for that high gloss oil rubbing nowadays...it is ALOT OF WORK!!!...and takes numerous applications over a long time period!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted November 3, 2002 Share Posted November 3, 2002 ---------------- On 10/31/2002 6:41:02 PM HDBRbuilder wrote: Boiled linseed oil has been used for oil finishes for over 6,000 years(yes, you read that correctly!!!...6,000 years!!! Some of the ancient Egyptian furniture found was finished in an oil finish using boiled linseed oil!!!) Linseed oil comes from the flax plant...the same plant linen is made from the fibers of! ---------------- HDBR-The Egyptians used raw linseed oil, not boiled. Boiling is a de-gassing operation performed on the raw vegetable oil in a vacuum vessel (enhances the solubility of added drying agents). Boiled linseed oil is a product of the "industrialized era". BTW, tung oils sold today have waxes and/or solids added to them so the "feel" of a tung oil finish depends on what's in it. The pure vegetable extract (is a "nut" a "vegetable") is not so easy to find. This is not the case, however, with BLO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Yes, John...I know about the outgassing of the O2 from linseed oil and how it can auto combust....and I also know that the ancient Egyptians used straight linseed oil...it takes much longer for the straight oil to dry and it is generally best to do this during the cooler months...it has less tendency to auto-combust when it can't reach its flash point as readily...just as it is best to cut hard woods during the cooler months...when the sap is down...it cures better that way and has less tendency to check as it begins its seasoning process...LOL! But all of that is a moot point when discussing the correct finish for the Klipsch oil-finish speakers, isn't it? Klipsch used boiled linseed oil with some stain/dye and drying agent(mineral spirits) added...not any of the other finishes that keep popping up in this thread...pretty simple!! And I think that was the whole point of the original questions asked at the beginning of this thread, wasn't it? LOL! BTW, although some vegetables are fruits, fruits are not always vegetables. Nuts are fruits. And the peanut is not a nut, but is a tuber! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 ---------------- On 10/13/2001 9:48:00 PM John Warren wrote: use what JBL used for 40 years. 2 parts boiled linseed oil to 1 part terpentine. ---------------- HDBR-If you go way back into this thread (somewhere on the first page) you will note that I recommended this recipe to the memeber orginally asking the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 HDBR, The original point of this thread was as follows. ________________________________________________________________ I have been the proud owner of a pair of Klipsch Fortes (oiled oak)for over 12 years now... I have used Formby's Lemon Oil all that time, but am wondering if there is a better choice; something to give them more lustre? ________________________________________________________________ So, the poster was looking for something to give them more lustre. That is why is suggested tung oil. The poster did not specify that he wanted to duplicate the original finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Man, am I glad I took the time to plow through this thread! This weekend, I picked up some 6000 year-old Egyptian speakers at the thrift store, and boy, are they dried out. When I cart them off to the auditorium when Antiques Roadshow comes to town, I don't want the appraiser to say,"Well, if you had only used RAW linseed oil instead of the boiled variety, these speakers would be worth several million dollars. But..." fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Well it looks as if I'll be buying some linseed oil for my walnut jbl's. They have seemed a little dry ever since I got them used a year or so ago. I just wasn't sure what to use. My jbl speakers also have two or three screw holes in the sides,(they were hung in a caffeteria) any ideas on how best to fill these?? I was thinking color matched wood putty that would blend with the walnut. I may wait till I have more time just so I can be sure I do a good job Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 4, 2002 Share Posted November 4, 2002 Josh, I'd use stuff called "Color Putty." Use it after you've oiled the cabinets, so you know what color to use. If the color you need is between two available (or if some holes ar in lighter or darker parts of the grain), you can mix them. The stuff stays semi-pliable, so if the speakers darken, you can toothpick it out and redo it. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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