sfogg Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 "The SET Fraternity is ALWAYS right!" They thought they were wrong once.... but they were mistaken... Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smilin Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Set is just fine, just need efficient enough speakers. I believe if I had modded khorns, with my Wavelength Cardinal X1, or Lamm 2.1's I would be fine. With Cornwalls, The VRD's were 90 plus percent of the Cardinals, thruout the musical spectrum. That said, I love set sound, just need to have balls too. I may have finally solve my problem for the time being with the Cary CAD M211 Anniversary's, 70 watts of class A set, and 125 watts in PP. Only time will tell. If I want the whole spectrum of music, from micro, and macro, well balanced from Bass-mid bass- midrange-trebel form whisper to plane landing, without sacrifice, I may be close. Time will tell. Bottom line, Great tunes are great tunes. Magic is magic, AND for the cheap ducat entry level with vintage Klipsch, you cant go wrong. I say ENJOY, and let SET/PP/SS et trip your own...[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 "The SET Fraternity is ALWAYS right!" They thought they were wrong once.... but they were mistaken... Shawn Seems as though the everlasting conversation has come full circle once again. Nasty "big ball" old SS to slam the bottom, a neat and precise tube amp dedicated(maybe even a PP) for the mids, and an accurate little 1.5W SET for the top. If it was easy, my (your) wife would have already done it. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Erik...glad you're back, as always. I won't get involved with any discussions regarding which topology is better simply because there is NO single topology out there that is better...only different! Each have their own shortcommings and advatages, so we choose what we like for our given source components and loudspeakers, our particular rooms and their various sizes, and for the types and styles of music we enjoy most. I love my Cornwalls, but for the little room I'm presently using for my system, they did not sound their best to my ears, whether I used PP, SET, or SS amplification. So I'm using a pair of single-driver Loth-X Amaze bookshelf monitors instead, which sound absolutely fantastic for this particular setup in this particular room (just need a sub to complete the bottom end). Once my dad can sell the residence pipe organ that's taking up space in the large formal living room, I plan on relocating my system there and once again use my beloved Cornwalls. Or I just may get a great high-quality PP amp for my Cornwalls, and leave the SET 300B amp in the tiny spare bedroom I'm using now and continue the use of the Loth-X there. Just like Erik and others have noted, we all can enjoy various topologies of amplification in our homes, and we don't have to be commited to just only one type because others say that type is THE best while all others are less adequate! If price was no object for me, I'd have the latest class-D Tripath digital HT setup in one room, a small 2A3 or 300B SET system in my bedroom or office, and a full-blown EL34 or KT88 PP amp driving my horns while spinning vinyl in yet another room! And all three could be the best within my given budget. Just my thoughts on the matter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Hey, Jim! I'd love to hear a good 300B amp some day. I never have! 45s and 2A3s yeah, but not the famous 300B. It gives me a good feeling knowing all my speakers are once again on 2A3 triode amps -- that I had something to do with in terms of bringing them into existence. It's just the feeling of satisfaction I get from it. I hear your thoughts on this -- there really isn't a single RIGHT way. At least in my opinion there isn't (which doesn't mean I'm right). I would just hate to close my mind off to other great sounding possibilities, whether of higher power or lower. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Well, we've seen Edwin NOT become a SET convert...he hasn't denounced PP topology in favor of a new SET saviour. He finally got a serious SET audition, finally LIKED what he heard this time, and understood that he could also like the sound of SET as much as he likes PP. Now if Edwin is so inclined, he can have his cake and eat it too! Might as well have the best of both worlds, know what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 "The SET Fraternity is ALWAYS right!" They thought they were wrong once.... but they were mistaken... Shawn Seems as though the everlasting conversation has come full circle once again. Nasty "big ball" old SS to slam the bottom, a neat and precise tube amp dedicated(maybe even a PP) for the mids, and an accurate little 1.5W SET for the top. If it was easy, my (your) wife would have already done it. Terry Some people still don't get it. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Some people still don't get it. So you just write off everyone who doesn't agree with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Paul: This Moth amp with KR 2A3s is great sounding. Actually, with B+ bumped up a bit, The Moondogs are very similar, as are the Horus twins. After listening to the Teac for a fairly long time, now, it was nice to get back to these great triode amplifiers. There is something so right and natural with their tonality. Yes, bass may not get the same swat that heavier current can give, but it's not bad at all. I'm going to be setting the system up in the not too distant future, where I can dial-in the amplification factor based on music selection. Of course, I'll still have to flip a single switch to do that, but I that's not too much work. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Some people still don't get it. So you just write off everyone who doesn't agree with you? Mr. Parrot, As usual you have your own agenda. Considering this post originated as a comment relating to the discovery of the quality of sound experienced by someone after a re-audition of a 300B SET amp, I can't think of anything less SET-like in presentation than the proposed tri-amped solution, which is what I commented on. Maybe I should have made why the comment was made more clear, but thought most would be able to figure it out. Since you apparently did not, thus my explanation here. I don't make or sell SET amps. It does not put one penny in my pocket, or a feather in my ego if someone does or does not buy or own a SET amp. What is important, is for all individuals to learn to listen to all things with an open mind and not allow preconceived misinformation and myth to overule the experience. I think a positive step was taken in that direction by edwinr. I'm not going to allow you to ruin the post of that discovery with your attempt to make it appear to be about whether or not someone agrees wtih me. End of story. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 As usual you have your own agenda. Considering this post originated as a comment relating to the discovery of the quality of sound experienced by someone after a re-audition of a 300B SET amp, I can't think of anything less SET-like in presentation than the proposed tri-amped solution, which is what I commented on. Maybe I should have made why the comment was made more clear, but thought most would be able to figure it out. Since you apparently did not, thus my explanation here. I don't make or sell SET amps. It does not put one penny in my pocket, or a feather in my ego if someone does or does not buy or own a SET amp. What is important, is for all individuals to learn to listen to all things with an open mind and not allow preconceived misinformation and myth to overule the experience. I think a positive step was taken in that direction by edwinr. I'm not going to allow you to ruin the post of that discovery with your attempt to make it appear to be about whether or not someone agrees wtih me. End of story. The saga continues . . . This is like a politician who says a nominee is out of the mainstream if the nominee doesn't agree with him. In other words, praise an open mind, just as long as the person with an open mind decides that only SET is the right choice. Otherwise he is close-minded. If someone wants to tri-amp and use SET where it is not unduly strained, that is his choice. Your put-down of him "not getting it" was rude and uncalled for. Disclaimer: I receive 49 cents from the Push-Pull Consortium for each and every customer I steer their way who used to be a SET owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 "Disclaimer: I receive 49 cents from the Push-Pull Consortium for each and every customer I steer their way who used to be a SET owner" Good one Paul - got a chuckle: Edmond - a decent comeback would be "That's nice - so you are up 98 cents!" Otherwise - if we are going to be picky we ought to restrict this conversation to "low power SET". I have seen SET amps wih 100 wpc and they will drive most things (even B&W's - if not BMW's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 And I thought this was going to be the first SET thread that stayed civil. I still haven't heard 211 or 845 based SET amps has anyone hereheard them? Free your mind there is no spoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 After years of SS, it has gotten to the point where there are only two of my amplifiers, well three actually with monoblocks, please me in my Khorn system. All are triodes, the push pull Wright 2A3s and the homemade 300B SET. The weakness' of both is similiar in that the bass, although substantial, is not as "tight" as SS can be and they are limited to just over 100db in my room before they start to break-up. With the less efficient Cornwalls, both lack bass. I had to turn on my sub-woofer.( With my Jolida 302B PP the bass is much more respectable even in triode mode and the sub is not required. I should have the Belles back together and inside this weekend. I am curious where they will fall seeing that their efficiency is midway between the Ks and the Corns. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 La Scalas, Belle Klipsches, and Klipschorns are all rated the same 104dB/Watt/Meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codhead Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Hi Seti, I'm listening to a 211 amp as I write this. Can a SET amp beat a p-p in bottom end? I used to call my Wyetech Topaz "Ike" and my Air Tight ATM-2 "Tina". Tina eventually found a new home.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 La Scalas, Belle Klipsches, and Klipschorns are all rated the same 104dB/Watt/Meter. I should point out that my favorable listening session took place with an Avantgarde Duo hybrid horn speaker. For those of you who don't know, the bass is taken care of by an active subwoofer system. The mids and hiighs are handled by horn drivers. I first heard the Audio Notes when they were driving a conventional loudspeaker. Also the tubes were due for replacement. With a Klipschorn or La Scala, for me, there may be a need for some bass augumentation - maybe a quality subwoofer? I don't know. Every high end amplifer or loudspeaker seems to have some drawbacks. They can do some things very well, and others require some tweaking to get it right. I know some may not accept the need for a high quality subwoofer in their system, but the difference such a beast can make to our appreciation of music can be dramatic. A system I heard recently featured a REL. The sub was barely on and if heard running by itself - well, you could hardly hear it. But the extra 'air' it added to the whole frequency range was quite remarkable. The guy that played this system for me (he has owned Klipschorns all his life), told me most people overdial their sub. "You shouldn't known it's there". Only when you switch it out should you notice a slight decrease in perceived bandwidth, or a collapse of the soundstage as it narrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 "...and they are limited to just over 100db in my room before they start to break-up." Rick What in the world is breaking up at 100dB? Khorns, amps, windows, ears? Nothing should be breaking up. Breaking up is hard to do. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 "The SET Fraternity is ALWAYS right!" They thought they were wrong once.... but they were mistaken... Shawn Seems as though the everlasting conversation has come full circle once again. Nasty "big ball" old SS to slam the bottom, a neat and precise tube amp dedicated(maybe even a PP) for the mids, and an accurate little 1.5W SET for the top. If it was easy, my (your) wife would have already done it. Terry Some people still don't get it. Klipsch out. ..." I can't think of anything less SET-like in presentation than the proposed tri-amped solution, which is what I commented on"..... Sir, I certainly did not mean to suggest that tri/bi is a SET-like presentation. Simply an alternative that some might enjoy. I have listened to SET, PP,and SS, some that I loved and some that I hated. However, I have not listened to everything. Hopefully, I won't "get it" until I do. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 "...and they are limited to just over 100db in my room before they start to break-up." Rick What in the world is breaking up at 100dB? Khorns, amps, windows, ears? Nothing should be breaking up. Breaking up is hard to do. Paul My old ears probably. These new vinyll double pane windows don't rattle like the old wood ones. The Khorns don't tremble at 128db. So it's either ears or amps. Really, the 8 watt 300Bs have maybe 9db of head room, the Mono 10s 12db at 100db. The soundstage starts to collapse and the bass muddies as they reach their peaks. At the normal 85-90db listening level, they are wonderful. BTW: Corns are 98.5db efficient; Belles are rated 103db and Khorns 104db. In listening I think the Belles rating is slightly high judging by the comparative output of the 104db K-77 tweeter v the Khorn. The ALKtenuator at -3db seems perfect to my ears. I'll reserve the final setting for when they are in my room with carpeting and furniture rather than the open garage where I have been listening to them Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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