sunnysal Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Bruce, Hang in there. Keep on loving her one day at a time. Some of us have been where you are and you are doing everything right. I will continue to pray for you both. Roy, thanks for the clarification. I would love to crossover to a horn from the jubilee bass bin at 1-1.2khz but I guess it won't sound quite as good (I guess you picked 800hz for a reason). Do you guys make the HF driver? Regards, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Hi Tony, Yes we make the driver here in Hope. As to crossover point, I use several pieces of data for determining crossover point: 1. First the amplitude of both the lf and hf must be smooth at crossover and hopefully provide plenty of overlap. by that i mean, you want the lf rolloff on the top end to be well above the low end rolloff of the hf. i call this the crossover overlap band. 2. phase value of the hf and lf should be stable and close to each in other in value in the crossover overlap band. 3. coverage angle values of the hf and lf should be stable and close to each in value in the crossover overlap band. In the case of the jub lf and 402/510 horn, the overlap region is from about 500 Hz to about 900 Hz. Below 500 Hz, the 402 and 510 horns, begin to rolloff, phase values are changing rapidly and the coverage angle values are high. Above 900, the lf is beginning to show the severe beaming pattern associated with two acoustic sources. Approximately 800 Hz acoustic crossover provided the best of all three requirements listed above. I like to let the speaker components tell me where they would like to be crossed over. roy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Roy, Again thanks for the insights. I cannot find fault with your criteria, 800hz it is then. I have to start saving pennies now for the jubilee. Though I love my klipschorns dearly I cannot help but pine for the product of your collaboration with PWK. I just wish Klipsch had a "custom shop" like Fender, where someone could order any speaker finished to order, so we could order the jubilee with a nice veneer and some sort of tophat in wood to house the HF horn, come to think of it it would not be hard for the heritage crew to take on custom veneering work on the proline woudl it? anyone from marketing listening? Warm regards from sunny El Salvador, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 I know that we take special orders. A form get passed around, it is determined if the plant can do the request and then a cost is calculated. Birch raw shouldn't be a big deal and substituting the front panel for a fancy veneered panel shouldn't be a problem. Boy I can already hear the plant guys cussing me out.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 Roy, Thanks. That is an option that is good to know as a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 since we have Mr. Roy's attention... What time delay settings do you recommend? It hasn't been a popular topic in recent posts so I'm hoping to get the speaker-master's final say in the matter []The more I read about this jubilee which I have even yet to hear, the more I'm thinking this may be the perfect speaker for my hopeful future HT. Just imagine 7 Jubilees all around and an 8 driver IB - everything of course powered with Crown K2's ('only' 9 total)....time to start saving the pennies! (wow, that's a good $50k just on speakers and amplification.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I know that we take special orders. A form get passed around, it is determined if the plant can do the request and then a cost is calculated. Birch raw shouldn't be a big deal and substituting the front panel for a fancy veneered panel shouldn't be a problem. Boy I can already hear the plant guys cussing me out.... Roy, You're a true gentleman to be tending this garden of audio nervosa Klipsch fans, especially with your busy schedule. We do, however, revere the heritage (pun intended) of this great company and love PWK's and your designs with a special passion. Perhaps we could make it easier on you and the cussing plant guys. We'll pass around our own sheet of folks who would be interested in a custom job and then give those guys a bigger batch job. That would be more profitable for you and might save us a ducat or two [] Bless you and your family on this day of reflection. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 chris, good idea about passing a form around so klipsch can establish an level of interest in a birch raw jubilee. I have BR klipschorns and they look quite nice thank you, they gain a patina over time that is really quite pleasing. I´ll guess 6.8ms for the delay...was I close? Now I am thinking with that bin crossed over at 800hz there are a bunch of horns/drivers that could be used if the klipsch version is too darn big... Happy thanksgiving to all, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Getting Klipsch to do neat things isn't so much the problem as getting folks to pay for it. We need something that produces dramatic effect, something like a thousand man march to Indy with torches and pitchforks. We could assign a small contingent covered in sackcloth and ashes to wail and gnash teeth at Jim H. and Fred K. The big horn is cool, but I think most of us don't have rooms or wives that would accomodate it. If I would have made it to Hope, the only question I would have asked is why not just finish the top of the thing with a simple baffle and a composite version of the horn that you and PK finally ended up with. I'm more intriqued by the horn than I am the bass bin. I'm actually fine with the utilitarian look of the pro-version, which is where I'm sure to end up even if a furniture quality version does become available. Proper setup for this thing won't come inexpensively. My prayer from the beginning has been that The Lord would release whatever bind there is on this thing. I sometimes think the Heritage stuff would be better served if it had its own little corner of the world. Something like HeritageWorks® might work good. I guess I feel that any future for a full blown home version of the Jubilee is probably tied to the success of the whole line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 Don't abandon hope, Dean. Perhaps a thousand man march of folks with checkbooks in hand would be better than torches and pitchforks. [] And I think you are right about there needing to be success in the whole line, too. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I will check on the delay value used for the demos. On the website, the delay setting for the 402 and jub lf is 3.5 ms but that is for a 400 Hz crossover point. In my opinion, delay is probably the biggest improvement that an outboard piece of gear can do for a horn system. Inherently, horn systems have physical displacements that really can't easily be overcome passively. But active delay can take what I consider to be the biggest achilles heel of horns and fix it, no problemo. That to me is the biggest reason why I would use active electronics. Just my opinion..... roy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 24, 2005 Share Posted November 24, 2005 I always thought it was nonsense. Now I'm depressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Happy day-after, Roy, If I (or we) were to submit a custom order (for consideration) for a pair of Jubilees, are we looking a $10, 15 or $20 thousand? Just curious .... I know it's hard to quess-timate without a spec to work off of, but in my mind I'm thinking something that would pass the WAF in the family room [:S] Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted November 28, 2005 Author Share Posted November 28, 2005 I will check on the delay value used for the demos. On the website, the delay setting for the 402 and jub lf is 3.5 ms but that is for a 400 Hz crossover point. In my opinion, delay is probably the biggest improvement that an outboard piece of gear can do for a horn system. Inherently, horn systems have physical displacements that really can't easily be overcome passively. But active delay can take what I consider to be the biggest achilles heel of horns and fix it, no problemo. That to me is the biggest reason why I would use active electronics. Just my opinion..... roy Please excuse my ignorance on this subject but can the same electronic crossover do the time delay as well or is that a seperate device? Was the Behringer on the shelf in Hope what was used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 Seti, The crossover and delay are accomplished with the same Behringer unit. It supplies the L and R channels with three outputs each. I'll see if I can provide the model number of the unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG Behringer Ultradrive Pro DCX 2496 Very sweet and reasonably priced, too. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 DaddyDe.....On your Avitar.....Bulls dont squat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 "Behringer Ultradrive Pro DCX 2496" Is that what they were using on the Jubilee? That is the same crossover I'm using to tri-amp my L/C/R 'LaScalas'. I'm using one crossover per speaker. BTW, for anyone wanting to use the DCX2496 if you can find it in stock buy it now. Apparently some part used in the crossovers is discontinued so Behringer had to halt production on them. The DCX2496 is getting very scarce because of this.Most online stores are out of stock of them, I know one place that may still have them. At some point if Behringer can find a suitable replacement for the discontinued part the DCX2496 may go back into production... but until then.... Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 This Behringer unit is what Roy Delgado mentioned he was using at home for his time delay projects. I don't know if it was also the same unit as was used on the Jubilees in the factory. I know there was Behringer gear in the listening room rack, but just didn't look closely to confirm what it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 DaddyDe.....On your Avitar.....Bulls dont squat. I've gotta get another avatar!!!! But Mr. Paul might appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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