Spots with digital cameras

[Tom Adams]

Does anyone here know why digital cameras tend to create "spots" on the image when using the flash? I know for a fact that the lens on my Canon is completely free of any dirt/dust so I know it's not that. I've even taken 2 pictures in succession and the "spots" appear in different places on the image. What gives???

But more importantly....how do you stop it from happening?

Tom

[colterphoto1]

Tom, could you post examples so I can see what types of spots your're talking about? They're not reflections off an object that change due to slightly different camera angles, are they? Or are we talking pure white dots that looks like dust spots?

Michael

[Tom Adams]

Tom, could you post examples so I can see what types of spots your're talking about? They're not reflections off an object that change due to slightly different camera angles, are they? Or are we talking pure white dots that looks like dust spots?

Michael

Hey Michael - If you look at these two photos you can see what I'm talking about:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/640785/ShowPost.aspx

Also, you can see the same "spots" in some of scooter's shots of his HT room.

Tom

[Cal Blacksmith]

Those are digital artifacts. I don't know what causes them but they

tend to haunt more lower priced cameras as opposed to higher dollar

ones. They are indeed a PITA[:$]

[Jay481985]

From what I know from film cameras it would seem the negatives have water spots....

But since this is a digital camera, I would presume that the lense has

water spots. It does not take much to makes those spots since the zoom

can enlarge them or systematically move them since the lense zoom can

make the spots move around the picture. I might say those are from a

sneeze or cough, maybe a fine mist. Try cleaning the lense with a wet

lense cleaning system. But remember first always use a dust off or

compresses air blast to remove anything from scratching the lense. Also

it may be also from the internal lense itself. Some companies in an

effort to cheapen manufacture do not use the cleaning environments to

make the lense. Was the spotting always present ever since or is this a

recent?

[colterphoto1]

I agree, looks like water spots on a neg. Might be very fine particles on the lens. If wet cleaning, make sure to spray the micromesh cloth, then apply to the lens. NEVER spray into the lens.

Doesn't look like reflection of any sort that would be associated with the flash.

Have you tried a timed exposure with camera on tripod and no flash? Use 'tungsten film type' so the image will render white objects white under normal home interior light.

That's how I do shots like this-> It was taken with Hassleblad, no flash at all, Tungsten balanced film.

Michael

[sputnik]

It looks like those spots are caused by lens flare resulting from those

ceiling lights in the room. Most of the point and shoot digital

cameras don't have the quality of optics and coatings that Michael's

Hasselblad has. If that's the case there isn't much

you can do other that using a lens hood and avoiding taking pictures

with bright point light sources in the frame. There is even a bit

of flare in the lower right corner of Michael's shot but in that case

it's a nice effect.

[Tom Adams]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions guys. Although I'm no professional, I'm pretty familiar with the right and wrong way to clean lenses. And the method you've described I've done. HOWEVER......

I'm gonna try it again.

FWIW - I'm fairly certain these "spots" have been present since I got this camera which, BTW, wasn't cheap (not that I think cal blacksmith you were trying to imply such). The reason I suspect it's something other than lens' stuff is that the number and location of the spots vary greatly from 2 or 3 to a bunch. I thought I read somewhere once that it was the CCD picking up on dust in the air that was illuminated by the flash. Maybe I was dreamin'....I dunno.

Anywho, thanks for the help. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to grab some Windex and a pot scrubber sponge to clean the lens on my Canon.

How else am I gonna convinced the wife I need a new digi cam? [6]

Tom

[sputnik]

Lens flare on the moon (not my picture). Taken with a

Hasselblad. Taking the picture toward the sun caused the two

spots. Take a look at your photos that have the spots and see if

there are point sources of light or multiple lights in the frame or

fringe area as in the shot of the home theater. That's my bet.

[colterphoto1]

It looks like those spots are caused by lens flare resulting from those ceiling lights in the room. Most of the point and shoot digital cameras don't have the quality of optics and coatings that Michael's Hasselblad has. If that's the case there isn't much you can do other that using a lens hood and avoiding taking pictures with bright point light sources in the frame. There is even a bit of flare in the lower right corner of Michael's shot but in that case it's a nice effect.

I think that is correct. I was trying to look for edges, usually on lens flare you can count the leaves in the camera's shutter, it will be slightly 9-sided in general. Don't know how many leaves you have in digi camera, but those spots are nearly round.

Yes, that's flare in my photo also. 30 mm fisheye Hassie lens (equal to 16mm SLR) with huge stained glass window behind me. Usually I body block that window- forgot on that day.

So it's nothing to do with flash or dirty lens at all. It's less than the best optics coupled with point sources of light in the image. Good call Sputnik!

Michael

[Cal Blacksmith]

Michael, is that photo of Grand Central station in Wash. DC?

If not, it could pass for a copy for sure!

SPOTS, No I was not implying a cheep camera, rather the spots have

something to do with the ccd, I knew once what caused them but have

forgotten in my ol......er middle age[][][:$]

[LarryC]

Moot point by now, but I would have bet on moisture spots, because they are perfectly round and the larger ones have a little color fringing toward the edges, caused by the spots themselves being little lenses that pick up different colors from various directions. I don't see any pattern related to light position or number of lights, whereas flare from very bright lights occurs in a regular pattern around the center kitty-corner from the light source. In theory, one should not be able to see such well-focused spots on the lens if they're close to the plane of the optical center, but perhaps that lens's optics put the center farther away, or a filter had the same effect.

Larry

[Jay481985]

"I think that is correct. I was trying to look for edges, usually on lens

flare you can count the leaves in the camera's shutter, it will be

slightly 9-sided in general. Don't know how many leaves you have in

digi camera, but those spots are nearly round."

colterphoto lol I think you need to take a step outside the world some

times.... Don't take it personal or I may be wrong but you say leaves,

leave it to a die hard hasselblad user to say leaves. Most digital

cameras (if not all) don't use leaf shutters, they use focal plane

shutters.

Also I still believe they are water spots, though I may be wrong. I

have a question though since you said that the spots were always there,

I would assume shipping? Maybe the lense was subject to extreme

variations of temprerature during shipping where it was very cold and

was placed in a hot environment. I may theorize that the water vapor in

the lense may have condensed on the lense itself (internal ones) and

when evaporated again left the inherit water spotting.

[Jay481985]

also as with the fact of glare usually it is consistant with the number

of actual light sources and since lighting sources are usually evenly

spaced out leaves a distinct pattern, there is usually consitant

distance in the glare. Seeing the photos again there is no set pattern,

no predictable sizes of the spots. In the second photo there is obviously much more spots then light sources

on futher inspection thought it may be the room and the shape, there

seems to be a fisheye effect in the photo and the white spots seem to

coincide with the circular fish eye effect. the spots are not perfect

circles there slightly oval which I bring into the fact of what I

stated with condensation within the internal lenses. What kind of lense

is this? is this a slr camera? single lense reflex where you see

through the actual lense itself or is it a point and shoot? if it is a

single lense reflex, try a different lens.

[LarryC]

"I think that is correct. I was trying to look for edges, usually on lens flare you can count the leaves in the camera's shutter, it will be slightly 9-sided in general. Don't know how many leaves you have in digi camera, but those spots are nearly round."

colterphoto lol I think you need to take a step outside the world some times.... Don't take it personal or I may be wrong but you say leaves, leave it to a die hard hasselblad user to say leaves. Most digital cameras (if not all) don't use leaf shutters, they use focal plane shutters.

Colter is basically right -- regardless of whether it's a focal plane or leaf shutter, the aperture is controlled by 5 to 9 leaves, and the edges of a flare will show that number of leaves because the light passes through the aperture.

[sputnik]

I'm still thinking it's lens flare. The first two photos have the

spots and the other three don't. In the first two photos there

are four ceiling can lights that could be the cause of the flare.

The second photo has alot of spots and it looks like too many for just

the can lights. It's also interesting that there is a projection

screen also in the frame for both shots with spots. Is the screen

rough with sparkly grains on the surface? I think it's called a

"lambertian surface" or something like that. The idea is to

diffuse reflected light from the screen to widen the viewing

angle. I wonder if the the camera is catching flare points of

reflected sparkles from the sceen caused by the camera flash.

Since the light is not reflected directly back at the camera, you

wouldn't see the screen sparkle but light entering the lens from the

screen reflection could cause multiple flare points. This is

interesting, I'm sorry to get all geeky about it. Are there spots

in normal shots without floodlights or the camera pointing toward the

sun?

[WMcD]

I have some problems with my cell phone camera. Mostly poor sharpness. I believe there could be a couple of reasons.

One is that the lens is so small that dust and pocket lint and condensation drops are relatively larger than they would be on a 35 mm film type camera's lens. Cleaning does help.

I also note the CCD (or whatever) is sensitive to infrared. For example the sender on an IR remote can be seen, and it shows up as white. This may also be why the cell phone cameral seems relatively sensitive in low lights conditions. I suspect the low light conditions are not quite so low in IR.

So perhaps the anomalies in the image have something to do with IR, or oddball IR flare which would not occur with a film (non IR film) camera. In fact, some haze in the image looks a bit like IR film, perhaps for the same reasons.

Gil

[Speedball]

Michael,

That looks like Union Station.......I remember when they converted the place to a the shopping mall, opening night was a black tie affair.

[Marvel]

If it's water spots, they are moving around. I'm also for the lens

flare. Plus, I've never seen them take the shape of the shutter leaves.

They are usually light reflected back off of one of the lens elements,

the position of which can change depending on the zoom setting as well.

I shot more 16mm film than I would like to remember, with a 12-120 zoom. Or a 9.5-57, depending on which camera I was using.

Bruce

[cmdridq]

I agree, looks like water spots on a neg. Might be very fine particles on the lens. If wet cleaning, make sure to spray the micromesh cloth, then apply to the lens. NEVER spray into the lens.

Doesn't look like reflection of any sort that would be associated with the flash.

Have you tried a timed exposure with camera on tripod and no flash? Use 'tungsten film type' so the image will render white objects white under normal home interior light.

That's how I do shots like this-> It was taken with Hassleblad, no flash at all, Tungsten balanced film.

Michael

Michael,

Just curious, what is the subject of this photo? And where did you get the photo of the Honda Fit?