I Bought Klipschorns :)

[meagain]

Duke, my Khorns are 1981. If I recall, you didn't change your crossovers - right?

I have people saying that it won't be much of a difference. Not big. Others say it is. Some say the amp I have is fine, others say it's cr*p and needs to be instantly replaced. Someone shoot me. And I can't even figure out what is wrong in the system? room situation/eq, crossovers, receiver/amp? That's nuts. Are you all saying this is a pure crapshoot?

And is there any way to test these 'caps' in the crossover? Or do we assume they are bad just due to age? Don't even know what they are or what they do.

[Jeff Matthews]

The amp.

[78Khorn]

Jeff, have you ever tried updated crossovers? If noI i will use your logic about amps and tell you that you have no idea what you are missing. Mine sounded really good but I chose to try the crossovers after reading the threads on this forum I had listened to my speakers for over 26 years and didn't realize a change had taken place. I only knew I didn't listen to them as often as I used to. Now I listen to them a lot more. May have been fatigue I didn't even realize I was experiencing.

[3dzapper]

Jeff, have you ever tried updated crossovers? If noI i will use your logic about amps and tell you that you have no idea what you are missing. Mine sounded really good but I chose to try the crossovers after reading the threads on this forum I had listened to my speakers for over 26 years and didn't realize a change had taken place. I only knew I didn't listen to them as often as I used to. Now I listen to them a lot more. May have been fatigue I didn't even realize I was experiencing.

Ditto.

Rick

[BEC]

Jeff,

You are listening to music though bad capacitors. No amount of power or any brand of amp or equalizer will change that.

Rule #1

Caps more than twenty years old are, as a rule, bad. This is because ESR increases with age.

Rule #2

Caps less than 20 years old in Klipsch crossovers are bad. This is because Klipsch used very poor caps starting about 20 years ago.

Bob Crites

[Duke Spinner]

Jeff, have you ever tried updated crossovers? If noI i will use your logic about amps and tell you that you have no idea what you are missing. Mine sounded really good but I chose to try the crossovers after reading the threads on this forum I had listened to my speakers for over 26 years and didn't realize a change had taken place. I only knew I didn't listen to them as often as I used to. Now I listen to them a lot more. May have been fatigue I didn't even realize I was experiencing.

Ditto.

Rick

+ 1

Back on Topic ...

[Jeff Matthews]

No, but I'm not in here saying I'm missing anything either. I've run my speaks w/lower powered Marantz and with my Crown. A/B on this alone is all the difference in the world. I am utterly satisfied. Maybe a tweak would do a little something better, but I am so satisfied I don't care. Moreover, there's no way a cross-over could even remotely compare to going from my Marantz to my Crown - not even in this orbit.

I think alot of money is wasted on these little tweaks, and few realize what dynamics is all about. They think their Klipsch sound dynamic through lesser powered amps because they are so loud.... and so clear.... oooooh. Dynamics is WAY different than just loud and clear. My little Marantz is loud and clear. Wooo hoooo!

Try hearing, for example, at 200 watts, the difference between a kick drum and an adjacent rim-shot on the drums. Now that sounds GOOD. At 30 watts? Ehhhh....

EDIT: I guess I should add that it will sound good at 30 watts on my Crown, where there's still plenty of headroom for the high peaks when these sounds hit in the mix of the rest of the music. But if I played at the same 30 watts on a 30 watt amp, like my Marantz....... no way.

[78Khorn]

Meagain, I believe in way you are right it is a crapshoot. One you need to figure out by spending as little money as possible. The amp, crossovers, and room EQ could each or all be a problem. Earlier I think it was said that someone offered to bring a McIntosh amp over for you to try. Do That. Contact Al, Dean, or Bob and see what it would cost to have your crossovers checked out. Not much money spent to see if/where your problems are. Then try the EQ.

By the way if you look at the equipment that people own on the forum you will see lots of owners of older Khorn that list ALK's right after the year of their speakers.

[Painful Reality]

No. No changes whatsoever. These speakers are the same as they were in 1976. Crossovers are dull and weathered-looking. Like that matters. These speakers kick...

Maybe the combinason of listening to shot crossover and a Crown amp creates a null...

[meagain]

Um - I kinda forgot to mention (lately) that I have a cheapo cd/dvd player. Probably cost $100 bucks a couple years ago. Toshiba SD-320V. We were wanting to upgrade anyway. Perhaps it would help things if this was ramped up.

BEC - I'm PM'ing you re this cap situation.

[Jeff Matthews]

Um - I kinda forgot to mention (lately) that I have a cheapo cd/dvd player. Probably cost $100 bucks a couple years ago. Toshiba SD-320V. We were wanting to upgrade anyway.

Perhaps it would help things if this was ramped up.

Not really.

[Jeff Matthews]

No argument here for MD. If MD couldn't rock those Belles with 125 McIntosh, and it was night and day w/new xovers, well, then..... okay. MD, you oughtta try one of them 400 watt amps, though, and crank it real good.

Maybe I oughtta try xovers. I'm sure you'll say that. But seriously, my Crown drives my KHorns soooo good. The sound is so smooth and effortless - even at high levels. Way high. The dynamics are all there.

But I won't argue with what you heard with yours.

[Jeff Matthews]

Here's my idea. Meagain, go with the ALK crossovers, and tell me what the difference is. You've been honest with your observations this far.

[meagain]

No Jeff - You need to buy them. Order them today. I already know I have a problem. If I put them in, I might still have an issue and not know what to blame.

You claim to have great sound so if you put them in - that would be more telling. A true test of them.

[BEC]

Jeff,

Send me those crusty old AAs and I will make them like new again in performance. Very little money necessary.

Bob Crites

bobcrites@centurytel.net

[3dzapper]

Jeff and Meaghan, I have a challange for you both.

I have two pairs of AA networks sitting on a shelf collecting dust, if you accept my challange, I will reload them with fresh caps, sonically test them and send each of you a pair to audition. The caps will be nothing fancy dancy just good sounding, fresh poly capacitors of the proper values. If you don't like the difference just put them in the box and send them back. If you are pleased, just imagine what a pair of the Guru's crossovers could do. buy a pair from one of them and send mine back. If you want to keep mine, send yours back to me and a small donation to my habit.

All you are comitted to doing is sending me back some networks via USPO Priority mail and the whopping sum of $7.70 for postage and your honesty.

Are yez up to the challange?

I can get them to you this year still.

Rick

[cmdridq]

I guess I should add that it will sound good at 30 watts on my Crown, where there's still plenty of headroom for the high peaks when these sounds hit in the mix of the rest of the music. But if I played at the same 30 watts on a 30 watt amp, like my Marantz....... no way.

Jeff,

Without actual SPL measurements, what is "loud" to person A could be quite different than what is "loud" to person B. If meagain's source material does not have extremely demanding peaks in dynamic range isn't it possible that at the volume levels she finds acceptable, that her receiver's amp is capable of providing all of the required power?

[meagain]

I AM listening to very dynamic music. Pin drop to bombastic in one song. I really believe I have enough power here. At least for where we sit in the room. I do feel however, that I might have an issue when we remodel as we're planning an open floorplan situation whereas I'll be walking back far away from the speaks and will require more volume.

3dzapp!!! Wow! Interesting offer for sure. I think this would help immensely (if the caps are one of the most important parts). This would help me learn if it makes a difference as well as drive me into buying a new crossover, etc. Might make me avoid sinking money into refurbishing some parts of my current AA's only to ditch them. Hmmm... Me thinks I'm up for the challenge! I could send the postage cash via Paypal, or whatever you'd like. Gosh - as long as they don't blow up my speaks, this is a great thing! Thank you.

You Klipsch people sure are a nice lot!

Jeffy - are ya going to do it? Might be good fun. We could start another thread, etc. I think cuz your khorns are older, you might not have AA's currently? What do you have again?

[sunburnwilly]

Meagain , First off Congrats on your K Horn steal !!! $150.00 = INCREDIBLE !!! I'm sure you will enjoy them for many years to come regardless of the type of amplification that you choose to use . Personaly I am very happy with SS . Secondly believe what Dean , Al and Bob are telling you about the networks they really do make a differance . Even if you just refresh the caps you will notice it . Lastly , can you believe the twists and turns that your post has brought ? And just for the hell of it here is a comparison pic of some of the big Klipsch networks . From left to right . 1st a crusty old AA circa 1978 . 2nd an equally crusty AB circa 1985 . 3rd a once crusty AA circa 1976 rebuilt by Dean with an improved tweeter circuit . And lastly a new Super AA by Dean circa 2005 . Sorry for the poor quality of the pic , I use the lowest resolution setting on my camera so it doesn't bog down the forum . Willy P.

[meagain]

Sunburn - LOL, No, unfortunately, I wasn't the person who scored khorns for $150. That was some other guy. I think they were painted or something but still. My goodness. No, I paid $1800. But it was in driving distance and from a most meticulous & interesting seller (sound engineer/producer). I was worth some of that cash just to see his studios, etc.

Anyway - eww, those 2 are indeed crusty. I wish hubby was home to move mine so I can snap a pic. They looked in pretty nice shape to me (or cleaned meticulously).

I'm curious what exactly the difference in sound was when you upgraded. And your pic is fine. I blew it up to take a good looksee. I wish there was a pic somewhere which labeled all the parts cuz I've no real clue what I'm looking at. I don't see those oil can thingies on the super AA's. Are those yellow things the replacements for them? The oil can looking things are the capacitors - yes?