JJkizak Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Then wondering why all the news reports said it was caused by the main dude experimenting with 5 bags instead of using the normal 6 bags. (Navy trying to save money). There was also an hour long documentary that was produced by Sandia Labs that stated the powder bags were old and that they recreated and confirmed that the powder ignited prematurely after exhaustively testing the old bags. The US Navy's reputation for telling the truth on a scale of 1 to 100 is about a -1. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feersum dreadnot Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 nope, nothing to do with saving money. you don't always need "full charge", and full charge does not always result in the best accuracy. If any of you are shooters, think of putting a 1,700 pound projectile out at ~2,600 ft/sec (about lthe same speed as a 180 grain 30-06 hunting round), then putting a 9-gun broadside into a football stadium sized target at 27 miles away - amazing accuracy. JJ - your memory is right, in that Sandia National Labs did do an extensive investigation of the accident. But it did not conclude that there was premature ignition. The investigation focussed on the cause of the accident. When you load a 16" gun, you start by ramming the shell, using a hydraulic chain ram. the ram has two speeds, and you use high speed to ram the shell. then, you open the first powder car, and move three powder bags into the tray by hand, then ram them at low speed. then raise the powder car up, and move two or three more 110 pound powder bags and ram them, again at low speed. then close and lock the breech (an interrupted screw plug that seals the end of the barrel). insert a primer (a brass shell about the size of a 45-70 rifle cartridge), and you are ready to rock. If I attached the picture right, it shows the breech, and the loading tray (the tray is folded in half, and pivots forward when the breech is open) Each silk powder bag has a pad on one end filled with black powder. the primer fires flame into the blackpowder, which ignites the rest of the powder. each powder grain is a thumb sized cylinder (compare this to rifle or pistol powders, which are millimeter sized flakes or cylinders). the powder grains are stacked in layers within the bag, and then a few are added, usually on their sides, to make each bag weigh the same (very important to have same amount of powder in each charge, to obtain consistent muzzle velocity and maximize accuracy). What Sandia found was that if the powder was rammed at high speed, and if just enough extra powder grains were added, then the impact and friction would set off and ignite the powder. 660 pounds of powder burning creates an immense volume of hot gases - which blew the rammer back out of the end of the gun, and killed the men in Turret 2. realize that every shell and powder used on the IOWA class battleships was of WWII or Korean War vintage. yes, the area where the powder is stored (the magazine) smelled of the ether volatilizing out of the powder - but that was the way it always is. You deal with what you have. with respect to the reputation for telling the truth, I can agree that putting the former CO of the Wisconsin in charge of the investigation was an error - he had no reason to find fault with the ship or mechanism. then they jumped on presumed gay Clayton Hartwig and tried to make it a lover's quarrel and sabotage. that was all BS to me as well. I believe the conclusions of Sandia, which also make physical sense to me in how the accident occured. However, I don't get your problem with the US Navy as a whole, as I have not seen the "reputation for telling the truth" to be all that bad. But, then again, I graduated from the Naval Academy, and the honor concept actually meant and still means something important to me. Maybe your actual mileage and degree of honesty have varied. and now, I need to run out to the mailbox and check if my Donovan CD arrived today - I am in need of some hippie music to chill out. Trivia question - who played lead guitar and drums for Donovan? (hint, they ended up in Led Zeppelin) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I have been known to overreact in my assessments. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I load up my guns and fire them off while I'm watching the movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I load up my guns and fire them off while I'm watching the movie. Note the special treatment on the ceiling of Dean's listening room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 When I was in college (late 50's) I visited the registrar's home to hear his "stereo" (Mac's and Patricians). He had a device that he called a "decompressor" that went between the preamp and the amp. It had two controls. There was one that established the loudness that the unit used as a threshold and one that established the slope of additional loudness. It was mighty exciting on things like cymbal crashes. The flaw was that it brought up the background at the same time. You could get a little sea-sick listening to it for very long. I'm sure there is sombody out there that remembers these things. It might work better for home theatre than it did for symphonic music. DRBILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Well....at least you guys have speakers that can reproduce gunshots that have some relationship to a gunshot sound. Everytime I watch certain movies like 'The Dukes of Hazard' where cars are driving on DIRT, my speakers make a tire squealing sound. And get this.....there's been times when my flawed speakers have made a "Harley" sound when the motorcycle was clearly a two-smoke!!! I've just about had it with my so-called Heritage speakers. Sheesh.....the money & time I could've saved with Bose. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I can just see you with a Bose Lifestyle system, Tom, to replace all those horrible, old fashioned horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Well....at least you guys have speakers that can reproduce gunshots that have some relationship to a gunshot sound. Everytime I watch certain movies like 'The Dukes of Hazard' where cars are driving on DIRT, my speakers make a tire squealing sound. And get this.....there's been times when my flawed speakers have made a "Harley" sound when the motorcycle was clearly a two-smoke!!! I've just about had it with my so-called Heritage speakers. Sheesh.....the money & time I could've saved with Bose. Tom LMAO!!!!! Good one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I haven't seen 'The Dukes of Hazard'. They didn't do that with the sound effects did they? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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