Tommytutor Posted October 14, 2001 Share Posted October 14, 2001 What brand of wire gives the best bang for the buck when replacing the stock wire from crossover to drivers? Is the sound improvement worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myram Posted October 14, 2001 Share Posted October 14, 2001 Check out this thread that is already going about the same topic - http://216.37.9.58/ubb/Forum16/HTML/000217.html ------------------ Klipsch Quartets - fronts Klipsch Academy - center Klipsch KG 1.5's - rear surrounds Klipsch KG .5's - rear side surrounds SVS 16-46PC subwoofer (very soon) Denon AVR-4800 Denon POA-5200 THX Amp (fronts) Sony C-67ES CD Player JVC 36D201 36" TV JVC HR-S3600 SVHS Player JVC XV-M565BK DVD Player Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 Digital Cable box Playstation 2 Monster Power HTS-2000 Monster Cable M-series Speaker Cable and subwoofer cable Monster Component, S-Video, and Optical cables RS HT Gold Interconnects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 At the risk of being flamed by some tweakers... The wire Klipsch used in the first place is just fine. You may want to reheat the solder joints if the speakers are old. The use of Monster Cable in some of the current Klipsch products is marketing hype, plain and simple. The wire between the speakers and the crossover is a miniscule part of the entire signal path. There is much, much more wire in the voice coils, chokes, autotransformers and cable to the amp than between the crossover and speakers. You'll never hear the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 I suppose ill never get the point through, so ill say it again, all the other wire in the eclosure is copper, the wrie Klipsch intalled is not! This topic is now over! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 20, 2001 Share Posted October 20, 2001 Uh, Jim, All my Heresys, from 1965 to 1984, have had the same tinned, stranded, copper wire. I've seen the insides of a lot of other speakers, Klipsch and other brands, and none of them had aluminum wire between the crossover and the speakers, although some had aluminum voice coil wire. Just because it looks silver/white instead of reddish on the outside does not make it aluminum. OT Congratulations on promoting yourself to moderator! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 I don't know where this aluminum issue came in. Sometimes the use of aluminum comes in when there is a weight issue in voice coils. But that is not an issue in point to point wiring. Silver is a very slight better conductor, but mimimally so. My advice is to not change anything. Malcolm is on point and exactly correct. As Malcolm points out, all the other components of the system have much more influence on the response of the sytem than the wire. FYI, some copper wire is coated with solder, which a mix of tin and lead. Give the appearance of white metal. The wire hot rodding issue is, IMHO, nonsense. Spend money elsewhere. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Gil All i have left to ask is why when i cut the wire in half, was it silver all the way though! If there is copper in it, it sure must be thin! I was not trying to get rich, or was i trying to destroy any Klipsch speakers with my idea, i wired my set, on my own, (own idea) 2years ago! I did notice a more efficient sound, with the amplifiers, running a bit cooler! If anyone wants to do this mod, its at their own risk. im no longer pushing it, nor am i mentioning it, only if asked! Im begining to feel the knives in my back, on this issue! I have pulled the knives out , and still want to be a part of this BB! Im not against anyone here, ive seen doubts all week, on this! You have to admit, i did a great job with the wire on my cornwalls! I also really wonder if tblasing is happy with the wire job, on his speakers, ive kinda felt like he wasnt, but hes not saying! I HAVE ONE HECK OF A h/t SYSTEM, NOT EVEN A SUB HERE! Last night i got die hard, the ultimate collection, its all THX check it out! I also hooked the quintets up, high rear, and their keeping up with this just fine! Amazing! Well, im on my 4th movie today, time to go! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Whoops. Jim, I'm the most polite of guys in person. No knife in the back intended. Do your thing, be happy. I get a bit skeptical, often. If you like the mod, fine. Certainly no harm is done. I'm as much of a tinkerer as anyone else here. Believe me, I've mellowed. If a guy wants to tinker and put time and money into a project, they have my respect. E.g., if you want to weave CAT-5 cable, it is quite a commitment of time, but little money. What does worry me is when a guy is sold a bill of goods by some high-fi saleman and invests a ton of money on cable which IMHO, can't make an appreciable difference for any technical reason. I'm in a point of moral ambiguity above. If you put big time commitment into a project with in expensive material, I applaud. It is the love of the art and a worthy learning experience. I do much of the same. On the other hand, if a guy puts money into a project based on a salesman's avarice and fast talk, it makes me frown. If you say the wire is silver colored all the way through, I have no reason to doubt you. I wonder (just "wonder", no knife intended), whether it is aluminum. Aluminum is a slightly poorer conductor than copper. However, it is much less massive. This is why it is used in voice coils from time to time. You can make the aluminum wire thicker, and then it is still less massive than copper for the same conductivity. On the other hand, aluminum oxidized in air. The aluminum oxide is a bit of an insulator. There was a move at one time to make house wiring out of aluminum. However, there were problems getting a good connection at the outlets and circuit breaker blocks, etc. I'm sure your system is terrific and you're doing good work. Hey, have a good time with Die Hard. To each his own. I thing Bruce Willis is annoyingly smug. However, perhaps I've inadvertently accomplished the same. I liked him in Sixth Sense though. Best regards and don't take anything too seriously. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Gil Thank you, you are a very smart man, if anyone has a question, your one of the few ive seen answer! The knife in the back, i apologize wasnt you, ive been kinda feeling this way, about a week! So im ganna just let the wire thing go a while, and see if anyone else has tried it! Its really no big deal! Die hard , the movies are all alike, but they sure put out some sound! I watched the star wars last night, episode 1, that was intense! Hey Gil While im at it, i have a K-33-E, id like to build a subwoofer with, any ideas how to do this, i wonder if id have to build a box, the same size as a cornwall! The specs on the woofer i dont know much about! That includes building a box for it! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Whoa!! Jim, I'm still in your corner buddy! Next to mothballing my Carver Receiver MX-150 for seperates and Mac DVD-CD player this has been the most significant upgrade yet. I know what you mean about comments and flames from others. Whenever I see a young kid driving a Civic/Cavalier or whatever, and this car has more junk hangin' off it, painted on it, parts cut out of it; anymore I just walk away thinking A.) Just keep that thing a safe distance from me and B.) I'll never buy a used car from him/her. But I don't approach that example of trendy-ism telling him/her that they just ruined what was a realtively reliable car in the name of being fab. That's not to say that the results of our labors are now undisireable by all, but I'm sure would be if they heard it and A/B comparason. I know home audio systems are a lot different than an automobile. A home audio system doesn't have to peacfully coincide whith society heading within inches of other drivers with a lot of momentum. A car does. There is a line when we start risking others' safety by building such a thing. And you and I certainly DID NOT cross it. Here's a bit of reinforcement. This weekend, one of the many projects we did to get ready for winter, was re-arrange the livingroom furniture so we can use the fireplace. This meant putting the system on the long wall (which dosen't have a side wall on the right side). This past Spring when we did opposite move I had questionable bass at best. After this move recent move it had SPL with flying colors. Chin up. Tom This message has been edited by tblasing on 10-22-2001 at 10:28 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted October 21, 2001 Share Posted October 21, 2001 Hell of an expierence isnt it, it does more than one would expect! thank you for the chin up. Long live Klipsch, and all of us great BB members, Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 Hello, Jim. No, we dont agree on everthing in here and that is fine, Indeed, I find myself at odds with most of this forum opinion-wise, but I wandered in here simply because I was near to purchasing a pair of Cornwalls and was interested in some info. Alas, the beasts are sitting 10 feet away. As for this idea that wire makes no difference, I am once again reminded how the Klipsch Forums are almost perfect examples of The Forums that Time Forgot. If your are looking for any backup on the wire issue, count me in. Although, I would have not gone with that monster cable type product, and generally dont like multistrand wire, wire DOES INDEED make a difference, whether used in speakers, amps, between components, to the outlet etc. And for me, it is not a matter of Mr. Salesman at the local Audio Salon, but more my own experience. I have had speaker cable that works wonders with some amps and terrible in others. My Transparent Music Link sounded very nice with my B&K M200 Sonatas. When used with my Welborne Labs amps, the sound was closed in and without air. I substituted 75 cents worth of Radio shack 18awg solid core, twisted, and run in pairs to each post. The sound was much better with way more life. I currently am running a pair of Belden 89259 type cables manufactured by DIYCable.com. This wire is doing great things and works extremely well as speaker wire between my 2A3 amps and the Cornwalls. I have replaced wire in my preamp with Kimber silver and it also made a big difference. Personally, I think that rewiring the Cornwall is proably a good thing. As for the type of wire, many are now getting VERY good results with the MAgnet wire at a very thin gauge. They are reporting good things with horns using this product. I have found solid core wire, on the whole, to offer a much more coherent sound than stranded. The skin effect is really problematic with stranded wire. Also, the insulation and configuration (twisting/spacing) does indeed make a differnce. Some prefer silver wire but I have found it must be driven by top notch amplification or else it appears too bright. Too those on here that persist in the "wire is wire" argument, I suggest you need to start doing some more listening. khf>s>------------------ s y s t e m Linn LP-12/Linn Basic Plus/Sumiko Blue Point Rega Planet Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Creek OBH-12 Passive Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks DIYCable Wire - Various ProAc Mini Towers 1977 Klipsch Cornwall 1 Alternate System: EICO HF-81 ASUSA A-4 EL-34 UL EICO HFT-90 Tube FM Tuner Sumo Aurora Tuner Nakamichi CR-7af>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 24, 2001 Share Posted October 24, 2001 wire is wire, but price is price - I think that what many of us are missing is a economic grounding for our discussions, what cost is the wire? what "different difference" does it give? how do those improvements rate? how do the improvements measure compared to the cost? I like improvements in sound as much as the next guy, but to my mind, they must be compared with the cost ... ------------------ HORNS & subs; leather couch & feet up; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platecap Posted October 25, 2001 Share Posted October 25, 2001 Guddai from under your left foot! I like both of the previous posts. I LOVE tweaking but,mostly, I keep it reversible. Tweaking is my second pleasure to listening to music. Tweaking is the reason I love klipsch. IMHO klipsh should not be bought by folk who are just going to plonk them in the corners and expect them to 'do it'. I am a cheap charlie who loves to tweak for a modest outlay, so, here hear to Charlie. Wire mods from some companies are for the sole domain of the Sheik of Brunei. Back to mobile homeless , I also like solid core.The thinner the better according to its current. My loudspeaker wiring is done with silver coated copper, teflon coated, about 24 gauge. Long time back, i bought some Apature speaker cable to use as an interconnect . Cheap Charlies discard wives but not paraphinalia. I stipped the multitwisted cable and separated out the numerous single cores. It became rather good value then. I have rewired the crossover with solid core too. My speaker cable is 1 metre of Audioquest Midnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted October 30, 2001 Share Posted October 30, 2001 mobile homeless, where've ya been? I've never understood why people cannot hear differences in wire. I haven't tried them all, but I have found a noticeable difference in clarity and detail using my present wire(AQ)and the run-o-the mill 12ga. multi-strand.Same goes for interconnects,and I haven't tried them all.Cheap tweek,for the cost of a few DVD's/CD's, as far as I'm concerned.To each his own. Keith ------------------ KSP-300 FL/R KSP-C6 CENTER SW8II C/SUB KSP-S6 SURR KSP300 SB SW12II SONY KP53XBR35 RP DENON 3801 DENON DVD3300 DVD-AUDIO SONY MDP455 LDP ACURUS 125X5 ACURUS 100X3 MONDIAL M.A.G.I.C. BOX PANAMAX MAX 1000 PANAMAX COAXMAX (2) AQ SLATE AQ COPPERHEAD AQ SIDEWINDER AQ VSD TRIBUTARIES S-VIDEO MONSTER INT.400MKIII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommytutor Posted October 30, 2001 Author Share Posted October 30, 2001 Talktokeith, Did you replace the internal wires in your speakers with Audioquest wire and if so what is the designation name or number of the wire and did this change make any noticible difference as to the sound quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xterra Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 Amen Malcolm.... Keith, I understand that you cannot understand...but, i won't mention the Klipsch engineer's name that told me over a brewsky that while at a manufacturers trade show, all of these audiophile geeks were given a blind test on speaker wires...and yes, they could not tell a difference, when they sure could when they knew which one's were the expensive ones. that will convince me for the rest of my life that a sound difference too miniscule for the human ear to hear ...is just that. all in fun. ain't it great that we all don't see (hear)things the same way. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted November 29, 2001 Share Posted November 29, 2001 Not again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 1, 2001 Share Posted December 1, 2001 Well, Kent ole lad, may I suggest that you actually DO some real listening to music and not to some Klipsch engineer, who probably doesnt know ye olde arse from the perfunctory hole in the ground (although, if it was PWK, I would at least be more polite about it..heh). After having run an all analog high fidelity recording studio from my home in the 80s as well as being an engineer in a radio station for eight years, I can safely say that many engineers have some of the worst ears in all of audio, not to mention a horrifying understanding of music in general (Again, if you had this discussion with the esteemed PWK, I would have nodded my head some more and paid for the second round). For those on here that have never heard the differences between wire, perhaps you should: A. Acquire a system that allows you to HEAR said differences. B. Become better at discerning subtle differences C. Buy some Home Depot 12 gauge multistrand copper wire Throw in your garden variety interconnects. Listen to said system at length. D. Go to http://www.diycable.com/products.htm Order pre-built or kit versions of their Speaker Wire and Interconnects (I prefer the Superlative but The Fat Ones are OK) E. Make cables/burn in cables/install cables F. Once cables have been burned in, do matched volume comparisons between your Home Depot 12 gauge wire with garden variety interconnects and the DIYCable wire. G. If you dont hear any difference then you have not succeeded at "A" or "B" above. The difference in this setup and my previous Transparent Audio wire via my 2A3 Moondogs and Cornall I with Alnico horn drivers was SO GREAT, that it actually sounded like I had upgraded a major component! And this is not the only example of this; I have been through this many times in the last 25 years. As said before, sometimes the differences are slight to none, sometimes they are large, and MANY times, price is NO INDICATION as I have had inexpensive wire trounce expensive wire at times. But to say that wire is wire and the differences are just Audiofools musings is off the mark and missing the boat. It is also passing up a great opportunity to get better sound, sometimes for very little expenditure. And another thing, if you cant hear these types of differences, than I would not worry about spending the extra ducats for an Audio Research amp. First of all, they are not especially musical sounding tube amps, and you can do far better with some cheaper gear. I find their products on the whole to be more antiseptic sounding with no much midrange bloom. While clean, most of their products appear too "bright" in tone to me. Their preamps are especially troublesome with the SP-8 being about the last one I could even live with. Good luck on your quest if you chose to undertake it. If you get prebuilt versions of DIYCable wire, you have a 30 day moneyback guarantee on the cable. Return and chortle at the added education at low cost. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 12-01-2001 at 09:55 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted December 1, 2001 Share Posted December 1, 2001 Hey Mobile, I think the Klipsch engineer Kent is talking about is ole PWK himself. He used to work for Klipsch and had PWK sign his Forte II's when he was still employed by him. And just so you know, he's from Melbourne alright... but it's the Florida variety. Hey, when are we gonna read the Cornwall review? I hope you had a good holiday... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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