Couple of basic LaScala Questions

[Deang]

So when are you guys going to reveal how much subage it takes to keep up with Klipschorns? At any rate, the Klipschorn is a full range speaker and unless you're doing a crap load of movies or pipe organ stuff you're really not missing much. Subs are terribly difficult to integrate with horn loaded bass and the transition area always sounds sloppy to me. It takes a hell of a lot of work to get it right -- so much so that I gave up!

[jpm]

Mine sounds great and I set it up by ear. Sometimes I feel you guys overthink everything. None of this stuff is rocket science.

[Jeff Matthews]

Tell me what song Squier's bass goes below 20Hz.

I think drums play much higher than this - except if you're getting into those symphony drums with drum heads 3 and 4 feet around. One of the members on this forum posted a little download so you could tell the computer a note to play by Hz. I was very surprised at how high sounds were at 100 or so Hz.

I listened down around 30Hz, and as a drummer, I've never heard rock or jazz drums go that low - not even the kickdrum. It be almost like paper flagillating in the wind - no way. Rap? Okay, but they're not real drums. Symphony? Okay, but those are not kick drums.

Rock and jazz doesn't seem to go that low.

Try for yourself. Listen to 30Hz.

http://www.linearteam.dk/

I'm sure someone will prove me wrong.

[jwc]

I've followed this thread for several days and resisted to jump in a debate that goes on forever.

Here is my experience. I had a pair of La Scalas with ALK A's. They were musical, accurate. There is no doubt that they were missing what I wanted for low end. I had to play them with subs. I then bought cornwalls and placed them on the opposite side of my large long room. The same results as stated many times before. The bass was fantastic on the Corns but the mids were waaay behind the La Scalas. Tweaked the Corns with new Crossovers and an improvement but same results.

Granted. I listen to a lot of Funk.....old stuff esp like Fatback, Con Fun Shun, Barkays, Zapp....blah bla bla. It is very hard to get "funky" with the scalas.

Therefore, the hybrid Cornscala was created. With the appropriate Crossover, the best of both worlds was met.

The La scalas were sold and then the Corns. I then got even hungrier and built the dbb's.

I think it is a matter of taste of bass "preference" and type of music.

[Duke Spinner]

listening, Megain ...???.....[]

[Deang]

With the appropriate Crossover, the best of both worlds was met.

Staying with the modified Type A implemenation?

[Deang]

JC has a good sized room to fill -- Meagain isn't in that position. She's also looking at LaScalas for rear channels -- not mains. A properly placed set of Klipschorns, good power, and a tweaked set of networks will move your chair across the room.

[meagain]

listening, Megain ...???.....[]

Yes Duke. []

Um.... It would be neat if someone started a Cornscala thread with pictures. Not that I'd be capable of building such a thing - but it would be cool to see the various attempts. I'm not sure I could bear waiting another 1.5 months for the darned search engine to fire up again. (Not that it was good to begin with).

[Duke Spinner]

BEC was offering a Pre-cut Kit at one time ...

[Jeff Matthews]

I've followed this thread for several days and resisted to jump in a debate that goes on forever.

Here is my experience. I had a pair of La Scalas with ALK A's. They were musical, accurate. There is no doubt that they were missing what I wanted for low end. I had to play them with subs. I then bought cornwalls and placed them on the opposite side of my large long room. The same results as stated many times before. The bass was fantastic on the Corns but the mids were waaay behind the La Scalas. Tweaked the Corns with new Crossovers and an improvement but same results.

Granted. I listen to a lot of Funk.....old stuff esp like Fatback, Con Fun Shun, Barkays, Zapp....blah bla bla. It is very hard to get "funky" with the scalas.

Therefore, the hybrid Cornscala was created. With the appropriate Crossover, the best of both worlds was met.

The La scalas were sold and then the Corns. I then got even hungrier and built the dbb's.

I think it is a matter of taste of bass "preference" and type of music.

Yeah, good way to put it. Corns get funky real good. There's something about the added effort that the Corns are forced to give that produces good, low-down funk. I might even go so far as to say KHorns can't do funk like the Corns - but I'd have to compare first. KHorns just have a certain feel about them as if they don't have to try as hard. Whatever that is????

Someone described Corns as "boomy." Exactly, except that I think the terms was used to slight the Corns. "Boomy" to me is good - especially with tunes where the bass player is seriously talented.

The horn-loading may make the bass a little "colder." Anybody care to comment on this?

[BEC]

I am working on a Cornscala II right now. I will do a post on it when I can. Right now the cabinet shop is slowing me down in getting the first two prototype cabinets.

The product will use my new replacement for the K-77 tweeter, and my new replacement for the K-33E woofer. Also a new midrange horn that will go down to 400 hz and still fit in a Cornwall size cabinet.

Should have had the first of them done a month or so ago, but like I said, the cabinet shop making the cabinets is going very slow right now.

Bob Crites

[Jeff Matthews]

Re: my earlier comments, I also need to add that I built some matching stands for the Corns that raised them off the ground about 2 feet or a little more - so maybe getting the K-33's up high was a substantial factor. But in any event, I adore the sound of Corns.

Like many drummers, I dig the bass guitar big-time, and funk and disco are allright by me. I never thought 20 years ago I'd ever say I liked disco, but it's true. I think disco sounds alot more like classic rock than it was given credit for. My wife turned me onto disco, which was long forgotten by me. There's so much cool, nostalgic stuff.

[jwc]

listening, Megain ...???.....[]

Yes Duke. []

Um.... It would be neat if someone started a Cornscala thread with pictures. Not that I'd be capable of building such a thing - but it would be cool to see the various attempts. I'm not sure I could bear waiting another 1.5 months for the darned search engine to fire up again. (Not that it was good to begin with).

Complete construction and details here:

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=65572&forumID=68&catID=19&search=1&searchstring=&sessionID={6AEDB2C0-BEA5-4CC2-BF80-6D1D24B79D5B}

[jwc]

dbb thread:

http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=68001&forumID=71&catID=19&search=1&searchstring=&sessionID={6AEDB2C0-BEA5-4CC2-BF80-6D1D24B79D5B}

no grills

[intotubes]

Right about the time I was starting to think maybe Mathews has somethng to say he say's he likes to listen to disco through his Klipsch.

I can't take it. I'm so confused..............

[Jeff Matthews]

Right about the time I was starting to think maybe Mathews has somethng to say he say's he likes to listen to disco through his Klipsch.

I can't take it. I'm so confused..............

Tubes, you crack me up, man! []

Bow, wow, wow, yippy-yo, yippy-yay. Try some Blondie, too! Or how about "Brick House?" These old tunes ROCK!!!!! There's also a tune called "What is Hip." The guitar solo in that song is incredible. You'd think it was regular classic rock.

I still think there's something about the extra apparent "effort" of the Corns that makes them give a "warm-sounding" low-end. Maybe it's a more focused soundstage as opposed to horn woofers that spread it out more.

[jwc]

Dean. On my dbb's. I'm still in limbo on the crossover. Still messin with it. Focused more on my Cornscalas (non dbb) this week.

Came up with a constant impedance design and bandpass for the Cornscala. It works well. Sounds better than the Type B's and B-3's with premium parts modified to cross at 400Hz.

I have fiddled a lot with the K33E. I will say that it performs very well in a reflex cabinet. One thing I am beginning to realize is that the "great bass sound" from it is lost when you try to cross it lower. Bob, I think you have your low pass still crossed like a Cornwall and just crossed the squawker down to 400Hz. This works. I bet if you try to cross the K33 "lower" to "match" the midrange....you will be dissapointed. I can't understand this.

I hate throwing the whole Cornscala concept in everytime this discussion come up. But guys, it just make sense. Think of it as a Cornwall with improved midrange....that is it. If you are dead set on not liking that sound of the Corn Bass, then the speaker isn't for you.

Bob is on to something trying to come up with a speaker to actually sell to others.

[Jeff Matthews]

Hey, I don't think I've seen anyone take a set of LaScala beaters and carve a circle right out of the front of the bass bin to mount a direct-radiator - and make LaCornwalls. I bet they'd look twice as cool with an inset direct radiator into that V-shaped bass bin.

[DrWho]

I have fiddled a lot with the K33E. I

will say that it performs very well in a reflex cabinet. One

thing I am beginning to realize is that the "great bass sound" from it

is lost when you try to cross it lower. Bob, I think you have

your low pass still crossed like a Cornwall and just crossed the

squawker down to 400Hz. This works. I bet if you try to

cross the K33 "lower" to "match" the midrange....you will be

dissapointed. I can't understand this.

I have an explanation...time-delay. I know we're only talking 2ms

difference between the squaker and the woofer, but that is enough to

change the timbre. If you ever get the chance, try to find a processor

of some kind that will let you change the crossover point and the

delay...and then on a pair of headphones (a time-aligned system) listen

to some music and move the crossover around and add some delay to one

side. Even with a 3kHz crossover point you will notice huge changes in

the percieved low end. And I find the difference to be much bigger than

the differences from updating an old crossover....

[BEC]

More Cornscala reading for those who want it.

Boy, it is hard to find an old thread with (almost) no search function.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/435049/ShowPost.aspx

Bob Crites