jwc Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 What networks were on it? Although, network upgrades on the La Scala will only improve the bass marginally at best (excluding the AL which sux bigtime). Did you find the post Of my Cornscala build? It is DIY but very detailed down to where the screws go. No fancy tools needed except for a jigsaw which you could borrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 21, 2006 Author Share Posted January 21, 2006 JWC - It had AA. I still have to look at your Cornscala thread. I only worked through the dbl. bass bin one so far. The good thing about them (I peg the gear on this) was less harshness. We brought a CD with sibilance(sp) on it and it was OK on the LaScalas. Warmer. However, bass guitar didn't have the string buzz on the fretboard or clarity like my khorns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 you see now , Megain......... you can get such differing opinions on..... Vinyl LaScala vintage tube equipment .........[] are some People Deaf ..??? or.. does it Really sound good to them ..?? also, the Scott has a low Damping Factor, which may account for the "loose" bass Cornscala's lookin' good, I'll bet ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 21, 2006 Author Share Posted January 21, 2006 Yea, and I'm never going to be able to judge anything unless it's in my house. Note: the older Marantz 1030 SS didn't afford better bass either. But maybe that's to blame also. IDK I suppose I could just assume that the bass would be tighter in my home, but that's a scarey leap of faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 The amp was a stock Scott 299b (tubes). Well if this statement is the truth then your listening test was a complete waste. I've rebuilt 100's upon 100's of these vintage amp and in the stock form your description is dead on. Smeared, undefined, flabby bass with the frequency response all out of wack. Most likely this amp has 12AX7 that are running with 30 to 40% less heater voltage then its designed for and power supply cans that are shot not to mention 50 year old coupling caps. It's amazing the people that use this gear bone stock and think there listening to it like it was meant to sound. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Cornscala build thread: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/542050/ShowPost.aspx I still say the La Scala is a fantastic speaker with an updated network. But as stated before, the bass wasn't to MY liking on a $3800 new Mcintosh preamp and a $4000 new 2 channel McIntosh amp with ALK A networks. Everything was jaw dropping except the bass for me. I always used my subs in two channel until I got the Cornscalas going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 21, 2006 Author Share Posted January 21, 2006 jwcullison - thanks. I have the link up and will likely print it out for a good sit down. Some of the pics in the link in that thread aren't showing up but I think I can figure it out. Building from scratch is a bit iffy for us. Not alot of experience, but I feel together, hubby & I are a pretty quick study. I think I need to hear some Cornwalls before I entertain going down that road to get a feel for their bass. We had this fantasy today of (if we remodel), building horns into the wall. Maybe having subs to go with them. Not sure if that's possible, but it would be cool. Right now, pending a Cornwall listen, I'm intrigued with what BEC's working on. And especially need to learn more about his Cornscala II which would be in a shallower cab. Losing that 10" or so off the depth would be very valuable to me, but I don't know what squawker is being used and it sounds like it's still in the tweak phase with crossovers & such. Still on the fence about buying the LaScalas. My gut's telling me it's likely more an amp issue. IDK BEC - I'll be PMing you in a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I agree with Craig on this one. Mine too sounded muddy and undefined until Craig rebuilt my 299, and I put some vintage Telefunken 12AX7's in it. Also replacing the AL networks with ALK's improved them better still. It may not be gut wrenching, but it is tight, fast and very detailed now. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Note: the older Marantz 1030 SS didn't afford better bass either. But maybe that's to blame also. IDK. The Marantz is 15wpc. Ergo, no headroom, baby! I bet I could make those LaScalas sing. Just for grins, you really ought to go and plug in one of those "200 wpc on up" pro amps and see what you think. And the Scott..... looks like 20wpc. So, now, you might have some idea with what happens to bass when you go down from your 65wpc receiver to a 15-20wpc amp. Of course, we know Craig's 60wpc VRD's deliver good bass, but I'll bet the power supplies he uses are stout (if indeed power supplies are the real deal when it comes to good amp sound). The LaScalas can be made to sound (stock) in such a way, you could not complain. They always sound great in my bro's set-up. He drives them with a Soundcraftsmen 225wpc amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 The Marantz is 15wpc. Ergo, no headroom, baby! I bet I could make those LaScalas sing. Just for grins, you really ought to go and plug in one of those "200 wpc on up" pro amps and see what you think. And the Scott..... looks like 20wpc. So, now, you might have some idea with what happens to bass when you go down from your 65wpc receiver to a 15-20wpc amp. Of course, we know Craig's 60wpc VRD's deliver good bass, but I'll bet the power supplies he uses are stout (if indeed power supplies are the real deal when it comes to good amp sound). Absolute crap! Where do you come up with this stuff? The Scott has 17wpc and can literally run you out of my room from the listening position (12 feet) at 105db. That's about 6.5 on the dial, and let me tell you, they are clean as a whistle with absolutely no distortion. That little amp will rock your world with the right parts and tubes! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Absolute crap! Where do you come up with this stuff? The Scott has 17wpc and can literally run you out of my room from the listening position (12 feet) at 105db. That's about 6.5 on the dial, and let me tell you, they are clean as a whistle with absolutely no distortion. That little amp will rock your world with the right parts and tubes! Mike Touchy, touchy! I think all amps can rock your world..... with the right parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Mike, do you know of any reason why my Marantz 30wpc can't run you out of your room? It's almost double yours in power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 22, 2006 Author Share Posted January 22, 2006 Prediction. This thread will now be 30 pages within 2 days. Here we gooooo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Good morning, Meagain. What you described as the sound you heard from the LaScalas is what I heard both times I made Klipsch purchases. When I bought my Corns 20 years ago, it was a leap of faith. They sounded "pedestrian" with the seller's Marantz receiver. When I got my Crown running them, they sounded fabulous. My more recent purchase of KHorns went similarly. They sounded like a huge step down from my Corns - with the seller trying to audition them with a Marantz receiver. He had all kinds of equipment scattered everywhere (he's in the business). So, I picked what I though to be a stout amp, and I had him hook it up in place of the receiver. That was all the difference in the world. I am cautioned about relating this to wpc by all the audiophiles here (plus what I heard out of the VRD's), but at least it appears there's a correlation in that these high-powered amps have the right something (if not power) that the receivers I heard were lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Jeff, Tube watts and SS watts are not equal. You need way more headroom with SS then a GOOD tube amp. Most properly working PP tube amps can reach double there rated output for breif transients without audible distortion. Couple that with there soft clipping compared to SS and a watt just isn't a watt any more. When a SS amp is rated at 30 watts that's it. Hit it's max output and it clips hard. You really need to give up the spec wars they really mean almost nothing as to how an amp sounds. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Craig, good to know the difference between tube and SS. This is never intended to be a spec war. There are a handful of folks who think my observations and questions re: this issue are a pi**ing contest to see who has more watts. I could give a rat's *** about how many watts are involved. It's that when someone whose heard LaScalas says they didn't sound good, and then, they proceed to identify the source of the sound, I have to immediately question the source. I've heard LaScalas, and they rock. That's what made me know and remember who Klipsch was, and it's also why I went Klipsch. I can say I've heard the LaScalas many, many times on a 225 wpc Soundcraftsmen. That's all I can say about the circumstances under which I heard them, and they sounded great with that amp. Naturally, when someone says they heard them with a 15wpc Marantz or 20 wpc Scott, my only advice I know to give is to try an amp along the lines of the Soundcraftsmen. Those speakers should have sounded great to her. I do not think there are any meaningful limitations in the low end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 So someone doesn't like the lascala sound and then everyone starts questioning the upstream equipment...go figure. Blaim it on the "revealing" nature of the speaker all you want. A pair of cornwalls are going to sound good no matter what you've got them plugged into. And the mere fact that there is still some debate when compared on high end equipment just makes the decision all the more easier in my eyes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 So someone doesn't like the lascala sound and then everyone starts questioning the upstream equipment...go figure. Blaim it on the "revealing" nature of the speaker all you want. A pair of cornwalls are going to sound good no matter what you've got them plugged into. And the mere fact that there is still some debate when compared on high end equipment just makes the decision all the more easier in my eyes... Cornwalls sound like sh!t just like any descent speaker when attached to gear not working properly. If they didn't then I myself would start to worry. I myself was more concerned with him making some judgement on tube gear based on 45+ year old amp that is surely not working properly. Heck I believe the Marantz 1030 is 30+ year old also. Do you really think this stuff is suppose to last that long without attention? Give me a break. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 22, 2006 Author Share Posted January 22, 2006 'her' [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 See what you started.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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