whtboy Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 There's a noticable difference in clarity, imaging and detail when I take the grills off my Cornwalls. Has anyone found a cloth that doesn't mess with the sound quality so much? Also, why in the world would they put wire mesh between the tweeter diaphragm and the horn throat? I would think that would only do bad things to the sound. thanks, jacob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 i'm pretty sure it's so crap doesn't get in there. i remember reading about taking them off. they said it didn't make much if any of a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 There is also probably a bug screen on your K-55 mid drivers at the horn throat. It can make a difference soundwise, but I have read on this forum that the bug screens were factored into the calculations, and should "sound" right. Are you hearing something different, or something "better" when you remove the grills? If I understand what others have said, the cloth acts as a filter of sorts. Of my speakers, the only pair with grills are the Shorthorns. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 "There's a noticable difference in clarity, imaging and detail when I take the grills off my Cornwalls." I have always preferred removing grilles when listening, and put them back afterwards to keep dust out. I removed them permanently on the Klipschorns. The top section was removed; all staples were pulled out; fabric removed, and the baffles resanded, spackled, primed and painted. The thickness of the grille fabric also provides the correct 'fit' between the baffle and top, bottom, and side sections, and I used the soft, fuzzy side of 3/4" self adhesive hook-and-loop fastener material (I bought a long roll of the stuff) to fill the gap that resulted from removing the grilles. It gave a very snug and soft buffer/barrier between the two sections, and ended up looking decent IMO. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtboy Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 There is also probably a bug screen on your K-55 mid drivers at the horn throat. It can make a difference soundwise, but I have read on this forum that the bug screens were factored into the calculations, and should "sound" right. Are you hearing something different, or something "better" when you remove the grills? If I understand what others have said, the cloth acts as a filter of sorts. Of my speakers, the only pair with grills are the Shorthorns. Chris It sounds better with the grills off. There seems to be more ambient detail, especially in the higher frequencies... the difference between just hearing a crash when a cymbal is struck and actually hearing the sound of the cymbal change as the the energy leaves it and it starts to settle down. It seems to have a simlar effect on guitar tracks too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I don't know about that grill issue. My Corns always sounded great. Over time, the sound punched away at the cane fabric and left it a little thinner where the sound comes out - no lie! Now, that's rockin'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtboy Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 God damn Jeff! Imagine what it did to the little nerves in your ears!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I used the black fibreglass screening at Lowes or Home Depot, stretched it out over a plastic ceiling insert with little 1/2" white squares that I painted black then put some flowerey pattern material over that painted Corvette Vinyl Tobacco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtboy Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 How does it sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Well, I'm not a sonic expert, but after the Dean corssovers were installed it sounded excellent to me.My hearing range is 20-12.5 KHZ and I hear nothing above 12.5 KHZ. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtboy Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 What I meant was, is there a big difference in the sound with those grills on and off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 If I were to convey anything at all here I would say the dispersion was slightly improved. I listen at loud levels with the system pumped up pretty good on the high and low end. With the cloths removed I did notice if you stand directly in front on axis that the high end was just a touch louder and with the cloths on that center axis was somewhat diffused. Actually with the cloths on the high end was much better in a non-directional sense. But remember that we are talking very small changes here. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 The mesch is there to keep out iron fileings & insects out of voice coil gap. Dont mess with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 And I read on other forums that the horn driver's metal mesh screen SHOULD be removed, so there you go. I'm considering it myself. It seems to me that the need for it is eliminated in home use. I can see the need for keeping flying crap out of it if it's for PA use or is out in the barn or garage, etc. As a side note, I think that grill cloth and virtually anything else that is in between the diaphragm and the ear is a potential source for distortions to the soundwaves. Anyone with a removable grill cloth can tell you that its definitely true. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 My speakers always sound better after I have had a haircut. Since it is not possible to do a doubleblind ABX test of this, I'll never be able to prove technically which barber is providing the best sonic improvement. I hear a difference and have a preference, but it is subjective and mentioning it here would just start contention among those that hold strong beliefs about the relative merits of measurement vs listening. Pauln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Pauln, That's probably because the barbers trim some of that excess ear hair out while they are working close around your ears. All REAL Audiophools KNOW excessive ear hair acts just like grille cloth: the speakers sound better with it removed! [] DON'T remove the "bug screens" from your horn drivers, though, there is all kind of crap that can get in there if you do that, and you will eventually be sending them off for repairs or replacement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efzauner Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Pauln, like most of you, you hide behind your snake oil by pretending that you cannot do a double blind: I have the solution: 1: shave your head 2: make 2 identical wigs, cut the hair short over the ears on one, keep it long on the other. 3: Freeze your ears and have your wife or other significant other randomly put on one wig or the other. With frozen ears you will not be able to detect which wig is on. Otherwise you could feel the long hair over your ears. Listen to musik and write down which wig you think you are wearing. 4: do a statistically valid sample of about 50 random listening test. Make sure you take breaks to re-freeze your ears. Now count the times your correctly guessed which wig you where wearing. If you where correct more than half the time, you win, if not you loose. After that your earlobes will be frost bitten and no longer properly image the sound into your ear canal...Then you can sell your Klipsch setup and buy some Bose. Buy a new wig with the money you saved. Your wife will love you for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I have wondered abou the very nice looking cane cloth on the older Heritage series. A lot of stuff from the 60's and earlier used the same sort. It looked like cane over cloth. It seem to me that at least 50 percent of the path through is blocked by the cane weave. You'd think that it has to be bad for treble. Maybe so. My Belles have black with a heavy texture. The stuff on the Quatets seems a little subtstantial, but not by much. In each case you can see the horns when the light is right. The Quartets are up on risers right now. So I pulled up a chair and snapped off the magnet attached grill, just as I type this. It is easy to move the frame into the path and out. There is at very best a very small difference. It is not enough to make me want to take them off for critical listening. The Forte II's have the same sort of cloth. Nonetheless, I marveled at classical recordings with cybals and bells. The tinkle is very much there with the grills on. My conclusion is that grill cloth used by Klipsch is not hurting the treble. - - - - Some years ago I read a website by the guys doing mods and updates on VOTs and adopting them for home use. They reported good results by tearing out the bug screens on the compression drivers. But every mod they did was always favorable to their ears. I do take this as a portent about hot rodding and mods. You have to wonder when anything that is done is always perceived as better. - - - - I was experimenting with the LMS measuring system at the time. I had an EV midrange drivers, 1823(?) set up on a plane wave tube. I was hoping that removing the screen was going to do something good. Nope. No change that could be seen on the plots. I really wanted to find something. It just was not there. This does not speak to the T-35 at all. But I suspect the people at EV knew what they were doing there too. = = = = It is tempting to think that the manufacturers are forced to use grills or bug screens to make things look pretty or to protect the drivers at the cost of degrading response overall. And if we have some clean domestic situations where those don't come into play, we'll gain something. That is what I thought and wanted to prove. My tests could not support my theories. I wanted to find proof. - - - Despite the above, I suspect that more sophisticated tests could show some alteration in dispursion and directivity. However they may be small. Also, it maybe difficult to judge whether any changes are good or bad. Best, Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.