Jeff Matthews Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 This is straight out of the DFH materials PaulN posted: "Although we do not recommend it (either for the customers ears or his equipment), the all horn-loaded systems, KLIPSCHORN, LA SCALA, and BELLE KLIPSCH can reproduce blood curdling high levels in the 115 to 120 dB SPL range when driven by an amplifier of 100 to 300 watts per channel. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> To achieve these rather high average SPLs without amplifier clipping requires the use of a power amplifier with a continuous output rating some one to five times the continuous power rating of the speaker system."So, there you go. If you're playing concert volumes or louder, at least 100 watts per channel is recommended so you don't clip your amp.It seems the best way to test the required power is to use an SPL meter and see what the average is. If approaching 115 dB sometimes, we should use amps with sufficient headroom.On a similar topic, it was said that SPL meter movement lags actual sound peaks and that actual sound peaks should be expected to be some 13dB greater than shown on the SPL meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 and ... You fit in where ...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Blood-curdling!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Great example about how we all look for different things in things hobby. Playing concert volumes or louder? I have no interest in that. Loud music is fine, but concert levels hurts my ears. Especially in a small house. Rock on, kids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Correct. This recommendation was for those who enjoy concert-level volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I was just at a concert Sun. night and my ears just stopped ringing this morning. Not what I want from my system. I do like it loud, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Proton and NAD had units in the late 80s with insane amounts of dynamic headroom (6 to 7 dbs). The Proton D1200 power amplifier, for example, was rated at 100 wpc but was able to put out 540 watts on musical peaks due to it's 7.3db of dynamic headroom. I have not come across another amplifer that has more dynamic headroom (7.3 dbs) per it's rated power. In fact, most ampliers have a paultry 1 to 2 dbs of dynamic headroom, which supports PWK's statement of needing 3 or more times (if I can recall correctly) the power you plan on using continously in order to secure the appropriate headroom to avoid clipping. I believe this is why he suggested that since the horn loaded Klipsch can take 100 continous watts you can therefore use 300 wpc or so amplifier to provide the necessary headroom to avoid clipping. Naturally, you shouldn't run said monster amp wide open but should instead keep it at or below the 100 wpc rating for the Khorn, LS, and Belle. How one could do this accurately and successfully without vu meters is beyond me. Perhaps that's why he urged extreme caution when using those monster amps. Or, you can simply buy one of the older Proton or NAD amps rated at 100 wpc and 7 plus dbs of dynamic headroom and forget about everything else. -H2G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkot Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 johnny, who did you see that was that loud? i also went to a show sunday night(the stones @ qwest center omaha) and my ears only rang untill monday afternooon jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I wanna know the model numbers for those NAD amps please. I enjoy dynamic headroom. I've been told I'm not right before. " Nobody's Fault But Mine".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkot Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 hey arfandbark about the modle numbers the two that are the the desireable ones are the 2600 @ 150 wpc (bridged peaks at 1.2k watts) and the 2400 @ 100 wpc (bridged peaks @ 800 watts) check my profile jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 It hurts to bang your head into the top of doors... hence why headroom matters..... hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I wanna know the model numbers for those NAD amps please. I enjoy dynamic headroom. I've been told I'm not right before. " Nobody's Fault But Mine".... Proton units with the high headroom were labeled DPD (Dynamic Power on Demand) while the NAD units were labeled POWER ENVELOPE. Look for model numbers with those terms after them and you'll be okay. For the record, the Proton and NAD units were virtually identical (must have been made by the same supplier/manufactuer). Biggest complaint most people had (including myself with my own Proton D940 reciever) was that the switchess/pots on the pre-amp section needed lots of cleaning. Easy to do, really - I had to do it with my HK 430 receiver too - but the typical user doesn't know this. Just make sure you take the knobs off and spray the cleaner into the pots from outside and then inside (take the cover off) and make sure you move the switches back and forth rapidly in order to clean the gunk out and to make sure the contacts get cleaned. Oh yeah...you'll wanna make sure everything's completely DRY before plugging it back in and turning it on - lol. Other then that, there's been no other issues or problems with those units in my experience or to my knowledge. some links: http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_3240.pdf The above link was taken from this list http://www.nadelectronics.com/support/productinfo_framset.htm best thing is to browse the list and find the old 80s/early 90s stuff and look for the Power Envelope feature. Don't have anything for Proton, unfortunately, but their main products with DPD from that era were the D940, D540, and D1200. Hope this helps. -H2G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Here's some additonal direct links to the NAD PE amps and integrated amps:http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_3400.pdfhttp://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_3100.pdfhttp://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_2400.pdfhttp://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_2240.pdfhttp://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_2200.pdf NAD's "big gun" with 100 wpc and 6 dbs of dynamic headroomhttp://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_2100.pdf Here's some additonal direct links to the NAD PE receivers:http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7240.pdfhttp://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7225.pdfhttp://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7400.pdfhttp://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7600.pdf 150 wpc but "only" 400 watts on peaks because it "only" has 4 dbs of dynamic headroom. http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7140.pdf (I have this unit myself. Picked it up from a guy on craigslist for FREE. He bought a new reciever because this one wasn't "working right". I took it home, put all new fuses in since two were blown, cleaned the switches, PRESTO!, works PERFECTLY.)http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7100.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I have the 2100 power envelope and it sounds wretched on my cornwalls. My little JVC AS-5 integrated stomps it tonewise....... It is rather wore out however, but it does makes a decent subwoofer amp bridged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 "It seems the best way to test the required power is to use an SPL meter and see what the average is. If approaching 115 dB sometimes, we should use amps with sufficient headroom." Actually whatever volume you listen to you should always use an amp with sufficient headroom - although at 75 dB that could easily be 1.1 watts. "approaching 115 dB sometimes" is also misleading as that sound like peak readings. Safer to say if your dB meter is hovering constantly over, say, 110 dB you should consider a sizable amp as peaks may well jump 6 dB or more from there. Then factor in the room, the listening distance, the number of speakers and the visits to the ENT surgeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I used to drive JBL 4311B Control Room Monitors with starpped 2200's and 6db headroom is equivalent to an additional 200Watts on this plain looking 100 Watt amp but never let a plain face fool ya because these amps rock[] If you ever want to buy 300Watts used for the price 30Watts new this is your amp[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 cause you don't want to bruise your knoggin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easylistener Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I had 7 NAD 2200pe's in my system for some time. They were ok amps need alot of relay replacing. They had lab inputs that gave the amp a much better sound. They realy don't shine intill you bridge them though. Infact I even clipped them with my RF3II's. The house was a rocken and I couldn't hear any knocken. I sold the amps a while back due to they were noisy and I bought some quiter amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z4! Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 This is straight out of the DFH materials PaulN posted: "Although we do not recommend it (either for the customers ears or his equipment), the all horn-loaded systems, KLIPSCHORN, LA SCALA, and BELLE KLIPSCH can reproduce blood curdling high levels in the 115 to 120 dB SPL range when driven by an amplifier of 100 to 300 watts per channel.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> [snip the rest []] Uhhh...if you re-read the exerpt from DFH it specifically says "we do not recommended" for the listener or the speakers. What a ringing endorsement of your position! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.