Klipsch and Classical Music

[mowntnbkr]

Have I been missing something here? I found a "Mozart Greatest Hits" at Walmart for 5 bucks and figured "what the heck". Now I love rock and roll, alternative, blues, and in very, I mean very limited doses, country. But man I put on this Mozart and I cannot believe how incredible this music is. Now I am only 40 so it can't be that I am getting old, so is it that for some reason Klipsch are designed for this kind of music. The other music sounds great, but I am truly blown away by how good this is. I am on BEC's wait list for the new tweeters, just not sure where I am on the list (hint, hint), but I can't help but think once I get them and put them in, just what a treat I am in for. What are your thoughts, are certain klipsch better for particular types of music or what?

[PrestonTom]

We all stumble upon classical music in one way or another. Congratulations and enjoy the journey

Take care,

-Tom

[IB Slammin]

We all stumble upon classical music in one way or another. Congratulations and enjoy the journey

Take care,

-Tom

When PWK designed the Klipschorn? .........I don't think he was listening to Audioslave.[]

Terry

[pmsummer]

PWK designed speakers excel with "classical music" and classic

jazz, in part because they were reference-able sound sources. PWK and

friends were using live performances of acoustically based music as

their reference points.

Pop, Rock, new Jazz, even a lot of todays "Classical" music has so much

manipulation between source (vocal chord, pick on string, air over

reed) and media (CD, MP3, even Vinyl) that the connection has been

lost. With no reference point, a speaker's performance is free to add

its own sound.

IMHO, the so-called "East Coast vs. West Coast" sound of speakers in

the 60s, 70s, and 80s, was a reflection of the difference between

wanting the speaker to "go away", or wanting it to "speak for itself".

PWK could arguably be said to fall into the "go away" camp with his

designs, although their high efficiency made that bloody unlikely. []

Both of my sons-in-law are excellent musicians in a "pop-music" style.

They are far more interested in how a multi-layered, digitally altered

track sounds on an iPod, than whether or not a bassoon sounds like

someone blowing on a hollow tube.

As always, your mileage might vary.

[pauln]

It is really not so surprizing that people who love music for it's musical sake find that the old classical music provides extraordinary enjoyment. The term 'Classical' music is often misused today to cover almost anything performed using orchestral instruments, but its correct original meaning only covers the period of the great German composers - about 10 of them..

Pauln

[Thoriated_Tiger]

Mowtownbker, the thing is you ran across Mozart, of all people. The music he left us is at once tender, joyful, powerful, sublime, and sometimes even terrifying.

I don't think we'll ever see another like him.

The problem with classical is its extreme dynamic range and extreme frequency range. It's easy to play compressed pop, rock, etc. But to swing classical properly, all the bits of a system need to be top-notch. Otherwise... yeah.. it'll sound sour.

Klipsch comes in handy for classical for the same reasons it comes in handy for other forms: Dynamics, and lower-distortion than other types.

PWK was hell-bent on bringing the orchestra into the living room, that was his driving force to make the Klipschorn. I think he suceeded, and even the smaller ones do allright.. my Fortes love classical, big, loud, powerful classical. So do my SF2s.

If you like ole Wolfgang Mozart, may I suggest, as a rather large 2nd step into your classical journey:

1. The boxed set of his piano conectors, Deutsche Grammophon/Arkiv.

2. The boxed set of his symphonies, Deutsche Grammophon/Arkiv

I recommend those two for a number of reasons... they're fairly complete collections of his major works. You can spend years studying these.... and then you realize he wrote over 600 works.. you can spend your whole LIFE listening to him, and not hear it all... another reason is the sound quality on these is pretty $@#! good... another reason is, they're "historically informed" performances, using, for example, a copy of Mozart's piano instead of a modern piano (they sound lighter and brighter, and can play faster than modern ones), and all the instruments are made like they were then... fiddles a bit lighter, leather-headed tympani with hard sticks, wooden flutes... etc.

Classical is my musical drug. Yup. And mozart, I guess would be my musical smack ;o)

[pmsummer]

Have I been missing something here?

Shorter answer: Yes.

[]

[Mike Lindsey]

I just posted this a couple of days ago...

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/696414/ShowPost.aspx

Mike

[mowntnbkr]

Thanks for the info. I knew Mozart was young when he started composing and then died at a young age, and that is about all I know about him, except I will get some more. Now that I think about it, it I don't think we appreciate the music because we grow older, but as we mature we actually learn to listen and we discover things we never really appreciated. I will look for some of what you guys suggested, but mind you I live on a small island in AK, and the closest thing to a music store is WalMart. Wish me luck!!

[maxg]

See the thread Mike linked to - there is enough there to keep you going for a couple of years probably. Funnily enough with Mozart you are truely in the classical period anyway - you might want to compare some of his stuff to Haydn who was around at the same period.

If you want to thoroughly explore Miozart then you will have to add in some of his Operas. Do not be put off by this thought - Opera's contain some of the most wonderful music ever written even without the singing element. That there is singing too - without compare in the history of humanity, is almost a bonus with Mozart Opera's.

There is so much more to explore thereafter - not the least of which is the Romantic period that incorporates such greats as Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak etc. etc. etc.

I won't go on - see that thread of Mike's and you will get the picture.

We will open a classical forum on this site yet!!!!

[LarryC]

...The boxed set of his piano conectors, Deutsche Grammophon/Arkiv.

Is that the set by Geza Anda and the Camerata Academica of the Salzburg Mozarteum? I picked that up a few weeks ago, and am astonished at how good it is! Yes, about $60 for the 8 CDs as I recall, but the performances are VERY alive, clear, well-recorded and performed. They are the best-performed and recorded Mozart concertos that I have.

Amazingly, they were recorded between 1964 and 1971. If Geza Anda rings a bell, this performance of the slow movement of the Concerto No. 21 was the background music for the movie, Elvira Madigan. I've always thought it was the most sensitive performance of that music I'd ever heard.

I like Klipsch Heritage for classical because I believe the whole range of tone qualities of brass, woodwinds, percussion and strings is very accurately reproduced. The tone qualities of oboes, flutes, bassoons, trumpets, tympani, etc., are more real on Heritage than on any other speaker IMO. Other speakers make them sound like softened facsimilies! Only strings can sound not quite as real, sometimes a little steely and lacking their most delicate character. However, strings can also present the greatest challenge to the quality of sound sources, especially CD players, and can benefit a lot from tubes instead of SS amps and preamps.

So, the answer is Heritage is outstand for classical IMO. The K-horn is well suited for all acoustical instruments down to the lowest notes of, say, the pipe organ, string bass, contrabassoon, etc.

I'm really curious -- which Mozart pieces does your album have, and which ones do you like the most?

Larry

[Thoriated_Tiger]

Is that the set by Geza Anda and the Camerata Academica of the Salzburg Mozarteum? I picked that up a few weeks ago, and am astonished at how good it is! Yes, about $60 for the 8 CDs as I recall, but the performances are VERY alive, clear, well-recorded and performed. They are the best-performed and recorded Mozart concertos that I have.

Nope.. these are the ones by John Elliot Gardiner and the English Concert. Or is it Trevor Pinnock? I think both are involved -- the piano ctos are played by Pinnock and directed by Gardiner.

I do have an LP of Concerto 21, the "Elivra Madigan" on DG. I belive that indeed was the Anda recording.

The Gardiner set is (was, when I bought it) almost 100 bucks for 9 disks, and has from #5 all the way out to the end.

These were done mid-90's, on their "4D" system. They claim 144db dynamic range.... I can vouch for that -- I have Beethoven's symphonies on the same label, same conductor, this time with the "Orchestre Romantique et Revolutionnaire"... the 9th REALLY pushes my system *hard*. That recording was the reason for me to seek a (for me ;o) hi-power tube amp.. 60wpc instead of my normal sub-30 ;o)

Warning, Gardiner playes the 9th with a really strange tempo... pretty fast, and the march in the middle.. he doubled the time on it. It works, but it sounds goofy the first few times.

That 4-d recording system, btw, was built by yamaha for DG. I think they got their money's worth.. []

As for which Mozart piano cto is my favorite.. . man, that's cruel. That's as cruel as asking me which LedZep album is my favorite.

In no order.. I really dig 20, 5, 6, 17, 14, 22,, 26, 15... 15's last movement is my favorite "drunk" mozart. [] (watch Amadeus for why I think that... they show him just bopping down the street, early AM, allready with a near-empty bottle of wine in one hand, all cheerful.. then he goes up the stairs to his pad... and *BAM*, queue the intro to Don Giovanni, and there's his dad, wearing a black cape and black tricorn.. sobered him up REAL quick [] )

Really, I like most of 'em. If I had to pick a favorite for virtuosity, it'd be 26, with #20 for sheer "dark" mozart (one of his only 2 piano ctos in a minor key.)

[LarryC]

In no order.. I really dig 20, 5, 6, 17, 14, 22,, 26, 15... 15's last movement is my favorite "drunk" mozart [] ... If I had to pick a favorite for virtuosity, it'd be 26, with #20 for sheer "dark" mozart (one of his only 2 piano ctos in a minor key.)

Yes, altho' I believe the very calm, almost spiritual major-key slow movement of no. 20 was used in portraying Salieri's denoument in the ironic ending of Amadeus. I like the other minor-key No. 24, and especially the wistful No. 27, his last piano concerto.

Actually, I'd meant what Mozart pieces were in mowntnbkr's Mozart album and which he liked the best -- I wasn't clear on who I was asking.

[DRBILL]

"When PWK designed the Klipschorn? .........I don't think he was listening to Audioslave".

I never saw Paul listening to music while he was at work. One day I walked into his office wearing my black suit and clerical collar. He looked up and asked, "Do you want to see a dirty picture?" I said "Sure, I'm off the clock." He unrolled a piece of graph paper covered with black squiggles which unmasked a competitor's speaker's failings.

He loved listening to music. He was often in my home and in the homes of several other friends in Hope. It was understood that he came to listen to music but not to talk about his work. He went to work to work and not to listen to music.

DRBILL

[Cal Blacksmith]

Excuse me please!

While I do not care for Bach, which is to light for my taste, nor am I much on Mozart, I do like 'Pictures at an Exhibition' by Modest Mussorgsky. I like the power he brings to the music. You can also see each drawing represented in the piece, dark creaky old castles, children playing, large city gates and a whimsical short of chickens in their eggs. This was one of the first classical pieces I had liked. It was performed on a synthesizer by Tometa. Played electronically or with an orchestra this piece written for piano is a fun piece to listen to.

You may now return to Mozart, sorry for the interruption

[D-MAN]

Yes, Mozart has "too many notes"...[]

Heyser's article measuring the Klipschorn stated that he thought it had some problem reproducing the piano.

What do you guys think? If any instrument is going to make-or-break it, it would be the piano due to its range and purcussive ability...

DM

[Cal Blacksmith]

From all I understand, you are right, the piano is the toughest to get

right. I think my corns and fortes do a very good job of it.

You might find it hard to believe but I have yet to listen to the "anvil chorus"[]

[tillmbil]

As I found the only real way to tell if your system is good or not is to play Jazz or Classical. It actually makes your system play all the sounds and levels that music can offer without the sound being masked by high volume and deep bass. I was a SS rock and roll fanatic until I joined this forum. Now I cannot really evaluate a system unless I have Rock and Jazz What I listen for mostly with Rock is the bass and guitar, so for me Jazz with vocals is the ticket.

So in a nut shell I understand what you just experienced.

Larry,

Would it be possible to get a copy of the CD you made? It is really a dumb question, because I have found Larry to be one of the most giving members of this Forum. Giving beyond what you could possibly expect from strangers. He must be retired to know so much about classical music, because I am a lost cause of the music and its instruments. I did buy that CD with the cannon blasts, just have not listened to the whole thing yet. It is on my list.

Try Paul Hanmer if you can find it , "Trains for Tuang". Incredible Jazz. I also really like Dave Mathews new Jazz trio album he has. It really shows off ones system.

Bye for now.

[pauln]

The piano is tough to reproduce realistically. I bought a recording of Bach's Italian Suite that was performed by a woman. I noticed two things right off, one was that it took a while for me to be convinced that the performance was done on a real piano. Turns out that the combination of ultra precision with which she played and the close as ever I've heard a fine piano tuned absolutely right made the thing sound rather artificial as if it was played on an electric piano. After some care listening I conviced myself that it was a real piano, but as a result of listening so carefully I noticed something else. There seemed to be some very quiet but audible clicks going on that had a not quite discernable relationship to the notes being played. After a while I figured it out - her damn fingernails were tapping the key tops as she played! These taps didn't quite correspond to the rythym or sequence of the notes, and only occur in some passages where she executes certain fingering patterns, but once I heard it the stuff became irritating to hear - sad because I love the music.

I've had much better luck with piano listening to Horowitz. He is a little more relaxed and the piano sounds more natural. His Moscow concert is excelllent, even the Russians coughing through the first peice until their sinuses warmed up image well. Even better is the New York studio recording of Horowitz Plays Mozart - flawless, timeless, amazing for an 80 year old man.

The technology of correctly miking a piano for studio recording does not always come of very well. I've heard what should be a clear run of piano notes sound like they are being accompanied by a second lower sound that tracks the notes but is not firmly harmonically related to the notes. Almost sounds like someone tried to close mike the piano by setting a short boom stand on the top of the piano itself.

Pauln

[LarryC]

Would it be possible to get a copy of the CD you made?...He must be retired to know so much about classical music, because I am a lost cause of the music and its instruments.

Of course. Unfortunately, shipping has become so expensive, it cost over $12 plus $1 for the CD-R to send one to another forum member (the burn is free). Probably as much as the CD did. I need to look into media mail.

I am retired, but I learned about classical mostly during my working era. Look at Mike Lindsay's recent thread for ideas on CDs you can pick up over time.

Lemme know if the cost is OK.

Larry