seti Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 It doesn't happen often but I heard it again yesterday when I was playing paul simons remastered graceland. Wish I could remember which tracks it was on but the ssss on the beginning of certain phrases was annoying. This must be fixed or I'll go nutso. I have made several changes new cd player and even an integrated solid state amp. This issue was present before and after changes were made. Could this be from the CD, a room acoustics problem or could it be a problem with my Belles horns? When do diaphams need to be replaced? I even tried the crossovers in A and AA modes. If any one else has this CD could they give it a spin and see if you hear the same thing? HELP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 You said it doesn't happen often -- so it must be the recording. I know what networks you're running, and I think your fibbing -- I bet you hear it on most everything you play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 It's awful isn't it? Painful at any semblance of volume. Wish I knew how to make it go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 It's awful isn't it? Painful at any semblance of volume. Wish I knew how to make it go away. Simple throw away the nasty recordings[] Ahhhh the pain of poorly mixed digital. You could also ripp these CD's to MP3's and then burn them to redbook from the compressed files. It would be interesting to hear what you find after doing this. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser SET say Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Simple throw away the nasty recordings Ahhhh the pain of poorly mixed digital. You could also ripp these CD's to MP3's and then burn them to redbook from the compressed files. It would be interesting to hear what you find after doing this. Craig Sounds akin to re-inventing the wheel Craig! Let me make one statement Seti left off his post and that would be his "BRIGHT ROOM"! Sorry buddy but 15X15X13 with all bare surfaces is my 1st choice of where your problem is coming from! A fart sound bright in that room[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 I could also try flipping my body upside down and dangle my head upside down off the side of the sofa. I'm about at the end of the 'could this be the reason?' list. Wouldn't cost anything to try it. You never know! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 OK - say one has a 'bright' room. To test this theory, what would one do? Find all kinds of old blankets to hang from the walls? What about the ceiling? And, if one had a flat vs. beamed ceiling (beams about 3-4' apart).... which is worse? flat or beams? Does the sound hit the beams and bounce back, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Seti is running Bob's networks with solid state, you're running my networks with tube gear end to end. It ain't the same. Seti needs a nice set of ALKS if he is going to stay with solid state -- you need to get on taps 4 and X, and if you still have the problem you should probably send your tweeters to Bob for diaphragm replacement. Since your problem "came up", I did two things: 1) Backtracked with about a half dozen of my customers to see if I could find someone having a similiar problem, and 2) took a set of newly built networks over to Johnnydb's house here in Kettering and loaded them into his Belles for a listen. John uses a Peach in this system with a pro-amp, and we literally lit up the room in an attempt to reproduce what you are experiencing. John's Belles have the K-55-V's with soldered lugs and the K-77-M's. It sounded great, and John's fiance, who took a timeout to sit in the room for a listen -- concurred. So, there are three possibilities: 1) The diaphragms in your tweeters are shot and are exhibiting some sort of resonance problem that is putting your ears on edge. 2) There is an issue with hookup. Absolutely take a time out and double check all of the connections. Looking at the barrier strip, facing you, and just as you see it below: T+ T- M+ M- W+ W- I+ I- Wire from M- goes to tap X, and wire from M+ goes to tap 4. 3) You don't like the sound of horns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 It's hard for me to fathom that a person taking on this hobby and willing to dump oodles of money on speakers and gear hasn't at least read one article on room acoustics and what happens when you don't deal with reflected energy. Uhg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 It's hard for me to fathom that a person taking on this hobby and willing to dump oodles of money on speakers and gear hasn't at least read one article on room acoustics and what happens when you don't deal with reflected energy. Uhg. Dean is absolutely correct! Aside from speakers, the biggest bang for the buck that you will get is by choosing good recordings and at least some minimal treatment of the room (including speaker location & placement). The second biggest bang for the buck, is more time spent on room treatment. The list gets fairly long before you reach "esoteric mods on electronics". Paradoxically, this is where most folks end up focusing. Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 IDK - I came from KG4s which have a horn. All wireing is good. Will try 4/x again. I felt 4/x took away some detail and things sounded unbalanced a bit. It sort of bothered me, but will try again and see if it helps or I can get used to the change. Hubby actually has more of an issue as he keeps saying certain frequencies jump out at him and 'ring' (whatever that means). Tried toeing out the horn section which helped make a bigger 'stage' but that was it. Changed speakerwire this weekend and added a cheap conditioner. Doesn't matter which preamp either. The only improvement in this was gotten by putting these Amperex orange label tubes in the Peach. We did this this weekend and it did change this problem-child issue a bit. Softened it slightly. Didn't fix it though. Husband thought 'maybe, just maybe' it's better. The problem I have with these Amperex Orange - and I've no clue if this is even technically possible.... they seem to remove dynamics to me. Crescendo-y parts seem to be quelled. A seemingly flatter, lack of dynamics deal. This makes no sense to me. But these seem to be darker warmer tubes than the others? We're going to move the khorns to our 21 x 16 living room when we're up for the project. Personally, I'd rather take a bullet to the head, but it's on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Another vote for room treatments. I'll bore you with pix of what I did. I could not be happier with the results. I still have some diffusion to add to the back wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Somre more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Still More...this served to darken the room as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Last one...I like the looks of this the best. Really puzzles visitors. "What the he!! is that?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Hmm... I'm sure it sounds good for a dedicate HT, but for my main living space.... I think it won't pass the WAF test. (me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rplace Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Hmm... I'm sure it sounds good for a dedicate HT, but for my main living space.... I think it won't pass the WAF test. (me). Well silly [] then it is obviously time for a new main living space or a new listening room.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> As for WAF, mine has no problems with it (guess I found a keeper) nor do the wives that have come over for a 2-channel listen or a movie...of course they could all be lying and saying they like it. Hmmm, I'll get out the truth serum for the next round of visitors.[:^)] It really tamed things down, reduced ear fatigue and eliminated echoes in the room. If anything it is just a tad on the dead side, but that is actually better for HT and up for debate on music only rooms. Some like it on the dead side, some like it on the reflective side. IMO anything is better then nothing. If you don't like the industrial/studio/modern foam look, there are plenty of more hidden options. Do you get the DIY channel? If so keep an eye out for their home theater workshop. They have one whole episode on making room treatments. All the stuff on the walls ends up looking more like art then room treatments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 Wow lots of replies perhaps I can reply in one message : ) You said it doesn't happen often -- so it must be the recording. I know what networks you're running, and I think your fibbing -- I bet you hear it on most everything you play! I may not notice on everything but it is really noticeable on a few recordings. Simple throw away the nasty recordings[] Ahhhh the pain of poorly mixed digital. You could also ripp these CD's to MP3's and then burn them to redbook from the compressed files. It would be interesting to hear what you find after doing this. Craig Funny LOL but I never expected this cd to be of such poor quality. Seti is running Bob's networks with solid state, you're running my networks with tube gear end to end. It ain't the same. Seti needs a nice set of ALKS if he is going to stay with solid state -- you need to get on taps 4 and X, and if you still have the problem you should probably send your tweeters to Bob for diaphragm replacement. Since your problem "came up", I did two things: 1) Backtracked with about a half dozen of my customers to see if I could find someone having a similiar problem, and 2) took a set of newly built networks over to Johnnydb's house here in Kettering and loaded them into his Belles for a listen. John uses a Peach in this system with a pro-amp, and we literally lit up the room in an attempt to reproduce what you are experiencing. John's Belles have the K-55-V's with soldered lugs and the K-77-M's. It sounded great, and John's fiance, who took a timeout to sit in the room for a listen -- concurred. So, there are three possibilities: 1) The diaphragms in your tweeters are shot and are exhibiting some sort of resonance problem that is putting your ears on edge. 2) There is an issue with hookup. Absolutely take a time out and double check all of the connections. Looking at the barrier strip, facing you, and just as you see it below: T+ T- M+ M- W+ W- I+ I- Wire from M- goes to tap X, and wire from M+ goes to tap 4. 3) You don't like the sound of horns! The solid state gear is TEMPORARY : ) but I also noticed it on tube gear. Returning to tube gear in May. Should I replave diaphrams in mid and high drivers? Since your experience was so positive this seems like a good place to start. I did double check all connections everything was fine. Number four isn't an option as I have been listening to horns off and on for 20 years. Thanks for the info!!!!! I was hoping someone else experienced the same thing and had an easy fix for me. It looks like the diaphrams are getting replaced.. What is the cost on those? I have some room treatment products picked out on ebay but won't be able to buy them for another two months. I have picked out bass traps for the corners and large tiles for the side walls, back wall, and ceiling. The price was suprisingly low. Thanks Again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted March 27, 2006 Author Share Posted March 27, 2006 Simple throw away the nasty recordings Ahhhh the pain of poorly mixed digital. You could also ripp these CD's to MP3's and then burn them to redbook from the compressed files. It would be interesting to hear what you find after doing this. Craig Sounds akin to re-inventing the wheel Craig! Let me make one statement Seti left off his post and that would be his "BRIGHT ROOM"! Sorry buddy but 15X15X13 with all bare surfaces is my 1st choice of where your problem is coming from! A fart sound bright in that room[] Have you been farting in my music room!!!!!!! Perhaps you tainted my diaphrams with your gas[8-)] The room is too bright. I'll tackle that after diaphrams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Seti, my response was specifically aimed at Meagain. If you want to alleviate the bright hissy sound then simply deal with the room and upgrade your networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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