richieb Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 What type of sound/slam/tight bass, upper extension can I expect with about 10 watts of EL-84 Pentode power, driving Belles. This integrated is made in Japan, now thats a change, by Almarro and seems like a fun, inexpensive piece to play with. How does the Pentode design compare to other tube designs for quaility of sound, reliability, etc. Thanks, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I heard the A205A at the AKFest the other day. It is rated at 5W output power. The Almarro rep flew all the way from Japan for the show. It was played through some Almarro speakers, rated at 89dB. It sounded fine with girlie music but when I threw in Pictures at an Exhibition, it was pathetic. Much better was their 18W SET amp, the A318B, but that costs $1000 more than the other one. The rep switched back and forth between the two amps and it was the proverbial night and day difference. On the other hand, when I expressed my dissatisfaction with the A205A later to Patrick (I think), he told me it actually does sound good on La Scalas (with 104dB rating). So, I'd say if you have a fairly modest room and don't play anything demanding, you'd be okay with the 5W amp. It'd be better to follow Paul W. Klipsch's recommendation of 20W minimum for Heritage speakers, though, so you don't have to restrict yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 EL84/7189 is a beam tube, not a pentode. I only say this because I am very partial to beam tubes--I think they make the best sounding amplifiers--at least in my limited experience. Electron flow in a conventional pentode. Electron flow in a power pentode. The beam-power tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 From the sixmoons.com review: The Almarro A205A is a minimalist integrated vacuum tube amplifier design from Japan that utilizes a single 12AX7 twin triode as an input tube driving EL-84 output tubes in a single-ended pentode SEP circuit to produce 4.8 watts per channel in class A1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I have not heard that unit but it has very enthusiastic followers. IMHO I agree that EL84 amps rule! Have heard'em, love'em and I am still searching for mine (a dynaco ST-35 or pilot SA-232). The use of the EL84 SE (as I understand the almarro does) is kinda dubious, I prefer to bet on tried and true PP EL84. I doubt you get 10watts out of them SE. In any case, 10watts should be enough for those speakers in a relativel small room for jazz. I think that 20-30watts would be a better bet if you listen to rock, anything loud and have a large room. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I have not heard that unit but it has very enthusiastic followers. IMHO I agree that EL84 amps rule! Have heard'em, love'em and I am still searching for mine (a dynaco ST-35 or pilot SA-232). The use of the EL84 SE (as I understand the almarro does) is kinda dubious, I prefer to bet on tried and true PP EL84. I doubt you get 10watts out of them SE. In any case, 10watts should be enough for those speakers in a relativel small room for jazz. I think that 20-30watts would be a better bet if you listen to rock, anything loud and have a large room. regards, tony What part of the previous posts makes you "doubt you get 10watts out of them SE"? Was it their rating of 5 watts output on Almarro's own spec sheet, or the sixmoons measurement of 4.8W? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 800 bucks for a single ended EL-84 pentode (beam tube for Alan) connected amplifier? Geez...... You don't even get a rectifier tube. The output transformers are rather large I guess. It's probably 4.8 watts per side with the amp clipped, with normal listening levels around 2 watts per side in actual use. It would be a good amplifier for a smaller apartment dwelling or bedroom or something. In my small place, my little SE EL-84 amp runs out of steam with my Cornwalls. Using a tube linestage really helps with that issue. 800 bucks for a simple circuit that's even more simple than the most simple SET amp.....I dunno..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 parrot, I was responding to richie's original post where he mentioned 10watts...I suppose you missed his post. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 parrot, I was responding to richie's original post where he mentioned 10watts...I suppose you missed his post. tony You suppose wrong. I answered his post thoroughly. If it's your customary practice to ignore all posts after the initial post, that explains a lot about your confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 So, I'd say if you have a fairly modest room and don't play anything demanding, you'd be okay with the 5W amp. It'd be better to follow Paul W. Klipsch's recommendation of 20W minimum for Heritage speakers, though, so you don't have to restrict yourself. Ok, here we go again with the BS that PWK recommendation of 20W minimum for Heritage speakers. What a crock of Bull SH!T from the Parrot. I hope no one buys into this without knowing the truth. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Ok, here we go again with the BS that PWK recommendation of 20W minimum for Heritage speakers. What a crock of Bull SH!T from the Parrot. I hope no one buys into this without knowing the truth. I'm not sure what you're trying to get across here. Are you denying that PWK recommended a 20W amp as the minimum for Heritage? What is the TRVTH that you reference? I've heard many low-watt amps chicken-bone when faced with source material they couldn't handle. So many, in fact, that I am 100% convinced that there are particular individuals who do not recognize compression and thinness when they hear it. To those individuals, I say "More power to ya!" Or maybe that should be "Less power to ya!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Ok, here we go again with the BS that PWK recommendation of 20W minimum for Heritage speakers. What a crock of Bull SH!T from the Parrot. I hope no one buys into this without knowing the truth. I'm not sure what you're trying to get across here. Are you denying that PWK recommended a 20W amp as the minimum for Heritage? What is the TRVTH that you reference? I've heard many low-watt amps chicken-bone when faced with source material they couldn't handle. So many, in fact, that I am 100% convinced that there are particular individuals who do not recognize compression and thinness when they hear it. To those individuals, I say "More power to ya!" Or maybe that should be "Less power to ya!" I just heard the 500 wpc digital amp from Yamaha and for the first time I got it. In my own system - with another pre-amp (tube) playing it next to my 150 wpc SS amp but with some history of tube amps. Nothing comes close! I do not think you need 500 wpc for Khorns - or for my own speakers - but god damn that is an astounding amp - just make sure you have a gentle volume control to go with it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 There's nothing wrong with driving a La Scala/Belle with 5 watts per channel. Especially in smaller rooms and when playing music with limited dynamics. It's really horses for courses, isn't it? Some of those low powered SET amps sound okay for experienced audiophiles who know what they want and can get the best out of the limited power available. PWK may very well have recommended that 20 watts is a minimum some years ago. But I don't know if that is satisfactory now-a-days. The advent of CD, DVD/A and SACD, and even the high quality vinyl replay systems currently available, place greater demands on the replay system. Lower powered amplifiers driving the La Scalas will certainly reproduce an SACD source. But if you really want to hear what the La Scalas are capable of with high resolution music, you need to hear them with a suitably powerful amplifier - tube or solid state. The difference in the sound, especially in dynamic presentation and reproduction of the low end, has to be heard to be believed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Hardy Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 I was happy with Cornwalls and SE 2A3 (Bottlehead Paramours; 3.5 watts per). I was very happy with Cornwalls and PP EL84 (EICO HF-81; 12-ish wpc). I am really stunned by Corwalls and PP7591's in the guise of a NOSValves re-habbed Fisher 500C (what? Maybe 25 wpc?). Low power and high efficiency is great, but there's something to be said for a little reserve power, I think. That being said, I think the differences above is more from the quality of output iron and also components in the signal path than "raw" power per se. BTW, I think a single-ended EL84 wired as pentode might be good for 8 watts on a good day with no headwind; probably more like 5 watts, though. EDIT: BTW^2, I think it's impossible -- or at least difficult :-) -- to build a bad sounding EL84 amp (or a bad sounding 2A3 amp, for that matter). Heck, I have a Magnavox PP EL84 stereo console amp, with dime store output transformers, that sounds dang good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamer Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 EL84/7189 is a beam tube, not a pentode. I only say this because I am very partial to beam tubes--I think they make the best sounding amplifiers--at least in my limited experience. Electron flow in a conventional pentode. Electron flow in a power pentode. The beam-power tube. Allan, Where did you get those cool graphics? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 http://www.tpub.com/neets/book6/21a.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamer Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Thanks, I am trying to learn about how the things work and want to biuld a simple pre then SET amp.Any info to that end is apprieciated. Greg Edit:It helps to have pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 why I took the bait and responded to parridiot's post is beyond me, it won't happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 why I took the bait and responded to parridiot's post is beyond me, it won't happen again. It's always parrot hunting season on The Olde Klipsche Forum. I can't help but notice over the years that a certain moderator is always conveniently absent when I am being slandered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 How can telling the truth be "slander?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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