IndyKlipschFan Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 Should people buy the 12 gauge copper Monster Cable from my local stereo store, at an inflated 1.50 a foot OR Go to Lowes Hardware store, go to the indoor wiring department,(Not the audio department for cables, but where the contractors go <think bulk off of of the spool> ) get Woods Wire.... made in the USA, Copper wire also 12 gauge in what looks like even a better plastic cover than the Monster Cables (These marketing guys think of everything...LOL..) at get this, at 36 cents a foot? Seems like with the 150 feet I bought... The origional expensive Monster Cable 12 gauge. 150 ft x 1.50= $225.00 OR Woods Wire- USA made, 12 gauge from Lowes Hardware 150 ft x .36= $54.00 Seems to me, I just SAVED $171.00 dollars. BTW, I have the K horns with the most expensive Digital Direct Monster Cables Oxygenated etc etc etc found several years ago.( They "through them in," with the speakers, because obviously when you buy K horns they make some $$ when you order them. LOL ) My question is this???? Did I just find out a dirty little marketing secret??? If I did, I wanted to share it with the board so you too can save $$$ on your hook ups. This message has been edited by IndyKlipschFan on 10-31-2001 at 01:38 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLIPSCHHOG Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 Hey Indy, Why can,t we just go one step further: Lets get everyone on this board to send in $20 bucks to the Klipsch BB fund, go to LOWES or HOME DEPOT, pick up some crazy, contractor grade wire (4-GAUGE should do the trick) wrap it in a nice polyester braid and sell it for @$1500.00 or so a meter! I could get one of my physics professors to give me some good catch phrases (like double-ionization radicals perfoming electrocundctive stabilization...... you get the picture). Then all we have to do is put an add in stereophile or The Absolute Sound, by the end of a year I gauratee we'd have enough "audiophiles" "convinced" that these were the "most articulate, transparent, blah, blah, blah,cables in existance", that we would be able to purchase everyone on this BB a pair of K-horns. So whadda ya say--you game? LOL LOL ------------------ LSU PAINTBALL- We'll cover you with our balls! Paintball players do it 'till their balls break! 1 Pair KLF-30's Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 Pre-amp Carver TFM-45 Amp Teac AD-4 CD Player ***Needed VPI HW Series Turntable*** Anybody Sellin'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted October 31, 2001 Author Share Posted October 31, 2001 There must be something to this, but even with my little Physics and electronics knowledge I would have to agree too.. This really seems wild.... On the new RC 7's explain this line?? "three frequency specific designs for enhanced definition and detail." So do cables now enhance or deter signals over the same Gauge copper lines?? Wow, that WOULD be an electronics breakthrough? Is it me? I know this all SOUNDS cool, reads great, even more than wonderful that Klipsch is at least upgrading to Good wires inside from the connections to speaker imputs/ crossovers/ speakers/. The premise, I am sure, is suggesting through "moral suasion" perhaps, if this high quality speaker wire is on the inside...(Audio Sales man pause here..LOL) Shouldn't you use it on the outside too? From the Klipsch site quote: FYI "They are wired exclusively with custom manufactured Z-Series Monster Cable®, as are the external bi-wire jumpers of the newly developed circular input cup on the loudspeakers exterior. This materials upgrade (which is part of a strategic alliance with Monster Cable that will place this premium brand wire in all Klipsch Reference Series loudspeakers) ensures top-of-the-line connection from the electronics all the way through to the voice coil of each Klipsch audio system. The Z-Series Monster Cable® comes in three frequency specific designs for enhanced definition and detail. Klipsch is the first and only manufacturer to have made a performance commitment to use Monster Cable in a complete line of products." What do you think?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 i'd pay up some for quality & construction of interconnect cables, especially those with shielding, but IMHO speaker wire/cable is a commodity, i.e. copper. PWK said lamp cord for speaker wire & i'm sticking w/ him. well monster standard cable anyway. & that's my final word on this topic ------------------ What's so funny 'bout peace, love & understanding? My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggs Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 it's too bad Recoton isn't having a clearance on their wires like they did about 8 months ago. $3.99 for 30 feet 12 gauge. ------------------ Denon AVR-2800 KG-4 mains (too bad the rest of my speakers aren't this good) Polk C-175 center (it's ok) Infinity RS-10 Surrounds (suck) Audiosource SW-15 subwoofer (excellent sub for it's price) Pioneer DV333 DVD Sony 5 disc CD player All in a 12x12 apartment bedroom. "What?! I can't hear you!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 If somebody wants to pay $1.50 for Monster speaker cable, or even a lot more, for more esoteric cables, more power to them. Spread the wealth around. IMHO, this argument was settled a long time ago. See: http://www.sundial.net/~rogerr/wire.htm Cable tweakers disagree. There are all kinds of esoteric speaker cable designs using litz wire, coax, Cat 5 wire, etc. I am currently running about 200 feet of 12 gauge cable for my HT system. I went with the Carol architectural grade cable from Parts Express at about $.20/foot and will use the money I save for a few bottles of 18 year old Glen Morangie single malt scotch whisky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 Thats something I never thought of ...home depot should have some 12 guage wire pretty cheap. I got my last 20 ft. of 12 guage from radio shack for $1 a ft. Not terribly cheap. -don ------------------ My system thus far: 1980 Cornwalls (mains) 19?? Heresy II's (rears) 2001 KLF-C7 (center) 2001 KSW15 (Subwoofer) Onkyo TX-DS787 (reciever) Kenwood DV402 (DVD) Sony KV 27V55 (9 year old 27" TV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I am of the opinion that Klipsch has succumbed to marketing a tie in with Monster Cable that could be good for them from a sales standpoint by, unfortunately, claiming benefits that PWK would never endorse. The Klipschorns I bought in 1985 were wired with the old fashioned thick Monster Cable. Nowhere in any of the literature I had back then was this mentioned, nor were any claims of improved performance made for it. The owners manual said that a high quality cable should be used when connecting the speakers, but that lamp cord would provide satisfactory performance. Frankly, thick Monster Cable was an improvement at the time compared to the thin wires most of us were using. But it was better simply because it was thick. My point is that PWK did not claim any magical benefits for the use of the Monster Cable. I think that the overwhelming majority of people would be well served by purchasing the least expensive 12 guage copper cable they can find in their area and be done with it. I cannot, however, really argue with those who do not feel this way as long as they are spending their own money on their own purchases. ------------------ L/C/R: Klipsch Heresy II Surround: Klipsch RS-3 Subwoofers: 2 HSU-VTF-2 Pre/Pro/Tuner: McIntosh MX-132 AMP: McIntosh MC-7205 DVD: McIntosh MVP-831 CD Transport: Pioneer PD-F908 100 Disc Changer Turntable: Denon DP-72L Cassette: Nakamichi BX-1 T.V. : Mitsubishi 55905 SAT/HDTV: RCA DTC-100 Surge Protector: Monster Power HTS-5000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I suspect Indy is teasing us. I'll be buying some new wire, at a reasonable price, when I see the following test. Frequency response at the speaker with a run of wire as used in the normal listening room. Show me 1 dB improvement over zip cord, and I'll buy. Gil P.S. edit. The link is a good scientific discussion. My observation is that top engineering houses like Mac and PWK have not been able to find any advantage, save for gauge of the wire. It is their responsibility to make the system sound better. Marketing departments publish a lot of comments favorable to 'super wire'. It is their responsibility to increase sales. It seems to me the only correlation is who is talking. Real performance in which the buyer gains in sound(engineering); and money (marketing), in which the buyer does not gain in sound. This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 10-31-2001 at 09:02 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted November 2, 2001 Author Share Posted November 2, 2001 Ok I looked it up and ...much to my surprise... wire gauge (noun) First appeared 1833 1 : a gauge esp. for measuring the diameter of wire or the thickness of sheet metal 2 : any of various systems consisting of a series of standard sizes used in describing the diameter of wire or the thickness of sheet metal ==================================================== Hmmmm seems to me, I followed the lead of other posts and spelled it GUAGE.... My mistake, I should have known it looked funny. I guess this proves my point too, in a way... I saw "Others" spelling it guage so it must be right..or is that write...ok right..LOL.. If we see others using a particular brand of heavy wire, it must be great, right?? This has been a good argument in this forum. I appreciate the feedback. In looking up info on this topic, I tend to agree with most of the posts showing common sense in here. If your looking apples to apples..( Wireing thickness 12 guage vs 12 guage, and if the copper is, I assume, a good grade and connected properly.) <<I must confess, I probably couldn't tell you what a sub par copper would look like, other than lesser quality metals being not "pure mixtures" going in???...>> I think I will stick with the Woods Wire speaker wire 12 GAUGE at 36 cents and use the money saved for other nice tweeks..Or great music, dvd's etc etc. Thanks for reading, and your comments too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted November 2, 2001 Share Posted November 2, 2001 IKF I just got 60' of 12 guage speaker wire, banana ends and spades from home depot because of this post. I figured at that price I could do my rears in 12 gauge too. .30 per foot! Thanks bud! ------------------ My system thus far: 1980 Cornwalls (mains) 19?? Heresy II's (rears) 2001 KLF-C7 (center) 2001 KSW15 (Subwoofer) Onkyo TX-DS787 (reciever) Kenwood DV402 (DVD) Sony KV 27V55 (9 year old 27" TV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 Several months ago I bought 12 gauge AR speaker cable at Lowe's to replace my old 'smoglifters.' It was a big improvement because they are darker sounding than the smoglifters and they removed much of the harshness I was hearing on my RF-3's. After using the AR wire for about a month,I became curious about the Cat-5 DIY cables. I made one run and hooked it to the left speaker. I then choose the best sounding FM station in my area and switched it to mono. I then did a A-B comparison between the 2 speakers. The difference was astounding. Even my music challenged wife noticed the difference and she wasn't even aware what I was doing. She stood at the top of the stairs and remarked how the one speaker sounded as though 'it had a blanket over it.' The Cat-5 cables are much more open sounding and revealing with no harshness. I can't recommend them enough. They can be made for under $50 depending on the length. I made an 8' pair for about $40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 more info on the DIY cat-5 cables please. ------------------ My system thus far: 1980 Cornwalls (mains) 19?? Heresy II's (rears) 2001 KLF-C7 (center) 2001 KSW15 (Subwoofer) Onkyo TX-DS787 (reciever) Kenwood DV402 (DVD) Sony KV 27V55 (9 year old 27" TV) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 BigBusa No problem...you can find the instructions here...http://tnt-audio.com./clinica/ffrc_e.html I bought the cable at Rat Shack for .35 cents a foot with a plenum jacket. You'll have to ask for it because they keep it in the storeroom and will cut it to length. I bought 100 feet of it. They have a lower priced non-plenum for 15 cents a foot that come on a 100 foot spool which is on the store rack. The TNT website uses 3 runs per cable. 2 for the lows and 1 run for the highs. I made mine with 3 for the lows and 2 for the highs. I found a way to make it faster and easier when stipping each individual wire. After ziping off the jacket and separating the twisted pairs I cut a plastic drinking straw to slip over the wire when I stripped it. I simply rested my wire strippers on the top of the straw. The straw acts as a gauge and it's alot easier to get the wires stripped to the same length.(and faster too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 Olaf most would say its your imagination,I know its not.If a system is very revealing and your ears are trained you know what to listen for you will hear what intercinects(and sometimes speaker wire)can do for a good system. I will never use zip cord or some HomeDepot wire.My cheapest speaker wires are the MonsterCable M2.2 and M2.4B!LOL Call me a sicko but I did not regret my purchase. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 yes as ears says w/ the very revealing B&K pre/pro i noticed a much more crystal clear sound on the highs w/ far less distortion when I recently replaced my cable tv digital audio cable w/ an AQ CinemaQuest VSD-2. here it's a matter of audible distortion vs. virtually none. clear to me. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted November 3, 2001 Share Posted November 3, 2001 The combination of the Audioquest speaker wire and Audioquest interconnects have provided a much clearer sound to my HT system.I determined there definitely was an improvement by buying and installing in my HT system and then carefully listening for differences with my own ears,not by listening to what others have to say who have probably never taken the time to perform the simple test outlined above,for themselves. You get what you pay for.If you're lucky. Keith ------------------ KSP-300 FL/R KSP-C6 CENTER SW8II C/SUB KSP-S6 SURR KSP300 SB SW12II SONY KP53XBR35 RP DENON 3801 DENON DVD3300 DVD-AUDIO SONY MDP455 LDP ACURUS 125X5 ACURUS 100X3 MONDIAL M.A.G.I.C. BOX PANAMAX MAX 1000 PANAMAX COAXMAX (2) AQ SLATE AQ COPPERHEAD AQ SIDEWINDER AQ VSD TRIBUTARIES S-VIDEO MONSTER INT.400MKIII Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Ears You're are correct. I used to be a big skeptic on cable choices and didn't beleive the hype that they would make a difference. I also never believed in the 'break in' period either until I experienced the improvement on my RF-3s. I've often wondered if the professional reviewers 'burn in' their test subject before they do their review on it. There is a difference. I will soon purchase an Arcam Diva A75 integrated amp and I will buy quality interconnects. I have inferior ones currently that need replaced. I'm sure I'll hear a remarkable improvement. Keith You're right!! Nothing good is cheap and nothing cheap is good!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted November 5, 2001 Author Share Posted November 5, 2001 OK. The Intellectually constipated have entered and taken over the room topic.... For many of you that have personally told me this might be a hot topic it is... I will still hide your names and take the hit myself. We found a "goldmine" here.. and the gold is $$$$ you can keep in your own pockets, if you like too. But each to his own too. Just keep the topics to the facts not a personal shot at me or others and I will try and do the same. My Origional thought was: 12 Gauge speaker cable, and properly shielded. My example Woods Wire made in the USA (In this case LOWES, or any Home Depot) provided a BIG savings. IMO... << I guess that is the problem, it is just that, an opinion>> This could save people wiring a room when they need 150 ft in my case or more in speaker wire. Kind of help your fellow "klipsch friends" with a great find. But then I got some responses like this too. "Most would say its your imagination, I know its not. If a system is very revealing and your ears are trained you know what to listen for you will hear what interconnects (and sometimes speaker wire) can do for a good system." Just FYI. I attended and was in the IU School of Music, and have performed vocally for several years. I have performed recordings on CD's that have won Grammy's... (IU SINGING HOOSIERS) Also sang at Carnage Hall...,Sing National Anthems for many national sports and been on TV several times etc., etc., etc. I have also sung commercials both Locally and Nationally, and know a thing or two about the whole recording "process." I am not bragging here. I am sure there are others with LOTS more experience than myself, but the insinuation was I had no music training personally, or that "my ears" didn't know or I didn't know anything about music, tones, or recording. (Well, yes, I do take that personally.) BTW, I listen to all kinds of different music through a pair of Klipsch horns, Cornwalls or Heresy's too. Some good, and yes, some bad music/ recordings too. LOL Take your pick which one "Juanra" you do not like. Hey, get angry at me because I didn't go to Julliard or somewhere else that you think is much much better...LOL ================================= "Nothing good is cheap, and nothing cheap is good!!" Hey, I agree, both a Yugo and a Mercedes are cars. but We both know somehow after sitting in and of course driving them, the Mercedes will last, and be a better longer term vehichle. =================================== Marketing departments publish a lot of comments favorable to 'super wire'. It is their responsibility to increase sales. Dugh...nuff said here.....LOL And the reason for the post idea in the first place. ================================== And then some posts that really made NO SENSE???/ I mean why would you do this anyhow below.......?????? "I then choose the best sounding FM station in my area and switched it to mono." etc etc etc...... What the heck does this prove???? WOW, so we want now dirty unreliable FM radio in MONO to prove points ???? Use a quality recorded CD...then tell me if you heard any difference? This just seemed crazy. ================================= Then we somehow got to the idea of interconnects. BTW I do NOT Skimp here personally. I use good quality Monster cable top of the line inter connects here. I assure you all, it is digital ready and probably a gold plated such and such. But this was a topic about wires TO your speakers. Not inter connects between equipment. Which could be a whole another topic? Like coax cable, or digital optical imputs, or svhs, rca, etc etc to your system. =================================== So again, to those brave souls willing to see a what on any test reveals as true.... 12 gauge is 12 gauge when properly shielded and connected properly to your system, I think this is a done deal. I guess if your still not getting it, maybe me and Klipschhog do need to do the following as he said in an earlier post too..LOL Hey Indy, Why can,t we just go one step further: Lets get everyone on this board to send in $20 bucks to the Klipsch BB fund, go to LOWES or HOME DEPOT, pick up some crazy, contractor grade wire (4-GAUGE should do the trick) wrap it in a nice polyester braid and sell it for @$1500.00 or so a meter! I could get one of my physics professors to give me some good catch phrases (like double-ionization radicals performing electrocundctive stabilization...... you get the picture). Then all we have to do is put an add in stereophile or The Absolute Sound, by the end of a year I guarantee we'd have enough "audiophiles" "convinced" that these were the "most articulate, transparent, blah, blah, blah,cables in existance", that we would be able to purchase everyone on this BB a pair of K-horns. So whadda ya say--you game? tty Soon IndyKlipschFan Trying to "SHOW YOU THE MONEY!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Posted November 5, 2001 Share Posted November 5, 2001 I then choose the best sounding FM station in my area and switched it to mono." etc etc etc......Yeah....I said that and first of all,nobody's taking 'potshots' at you. It's simply other folks personnal opinions and that is what this site is for, to get questions answered. Not everyone has the same opinions about various subjects. Now as far as my mono FM A/B comparison. FM signals are usually dirty and I agree with you on that,but setting the FM to mono increases the signal strength and there's a 'state of the art' station with 40K watts that has its transmitter about 5 miles from me and I get a very clean signal. Now,by setting the switch to mono you send the same signal to each speaker. It's not separated into two channels like a stereo signal. That's how I did an A/B comparison. I simply switched the balance from left to right several times to compare. I then switched the cables to the opposite speaker to make sure there wasn't a difference in speakers. I got the same result. I've been a musician for 35 years myself and I know a bit about 'sound.' I also agree with you about about dumping tons of money on exotic cables that probably don't make that much of a difference. That's the reason I only spent $40 on the cat-5 to see if there is a difference...a low priced experiment. I'm sorry if anyone hurt your feelings. It wasn't intentional. Would you by any chance be the same 'Indy' who posts on the 'Pipebombnews' forum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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