JBL 2404's instead of K77

[Coytee]

Would a simple swap of the JBL 2404's work? I "need" a tweet for the empty LaScala cabinet I have on it's way but figure if I can just swap the tweet out of my Khorns and set the 2404 on top until I can do the Trachorn swap, I'd get by.

So, is that singular swap ok and as I presume, would I need to attenuate it a bit using Al's ES network? (I've never played with the settings on it, just left as stock)

If the above WOULD work, am I wasting time now by NOT doing it ASAP? In other words, should I have done it the moment I got them?

If I should go ahead & do the swap, any wisdom on what I should set the crossover to so they can blend in a bit better?

I say the above because I understand they're a bit hotter than the stock tweet.

[jwc]

FWIW. I found the simple swap to be fine w/o adjustments. Did this with two different networks.

It seems most attenuate to some degree. Maybe my ears just love their sound. I actually like the K77 but the JBL is much better.

[3dzapper]

If you like tingle, tingle instead of tssh, tssh, just do it. The 2404s are a much finer tweeter. Sweeter and much more detailed. I ran mine outboard in a box for a year or better before I made my trachorns. Then I put them inside the tophat in the same box.

Al K's trachorns have a provision for mounting the tweets to the motor board.

Rick

[Tom Mobley]

What Rick said. I have a total of eight K-77 around here along with a pair of 2404. Frankly, the 2404 make the 77 sound like a two dollar transistor radio. I never thought I'd find myself saying this stuff, but here it is.

[chops]

How do BEC's CT125 tweeters compare to the 2404?

Just for the record, I really like these CT125s. Very clean and crisp without being sizzley or harsh.

[Guest " "]

do you have 8 all the same, or samplings from various era's.

I have a few of many of the popular productions. My favorite for a pure t-35. the chrome version with the white alinco magnet. this version was popular with electro-voice speakers that had displayable tweeter mountings and has a larger magnet than the k-77's used in the older klipsch speakers. It looks like a smaller version of the t-350....and in fact, many re-sellers have mistakenly sould these white and chrome t-35's as t-350's. The tech data state that this version has a higher frequency response than the later runs.

My 2 cents on the jbl 2404 is that the improvement will be even more dramatic as you move away from the A or AA network and move toward something with a steeper cut off.

[Coytee]

do you have 8 all the same, or samplings from various era's.

I have a few of many of the popular productions. My favorite for a pure t-35. the chrome version with the white alinco magnet. this version was popular with electro-voice speakers that had displayable tweeter mountings and has a larger magnet than the k-77's used in the older klipsch speakers. It looks like a smaller version of the t-350....and in fact, many re-sellers have mistakenly sould these white and chrome t-35's as t-350's. The tech data state that this version has a higher frequency response than the later runs.

My 2 cents on the jbl 2404 is that the improvement will be even more dramatic as you move away from the A or AA network and move toward something with a steeper cut off.

If you refer to me, then I'll presume it to be good news then that I have Al's ES netrworks.

[]

[sunnysal]

my understanding is that you need to pad the 2404H a bit when replacing the k77 since the jbl is a bit more eifficient. I found it so when I made a temporary swap, that is why I have not "gone permanent" yet with the swap, still working on which crossover to use and how to pad. for me it was obivous the superioirty of the JBL over the stock klipsch tweeter right away. regards, tony

[rigma]

Tony,

I first thought the JBL's where to hot and bought Al K's tweeter attenuators but after extended listening, I run them without any padding. Maybe the increased tweeter level suits my 53 yr old ears.

Rigma

[sunnysal]

I know what you mean rigma. I tend to like my music "bright" these days, or so my wife tells me. But I found the 2404H just a bit hot when A/Bing against the k-77. not bad mind you, just a bit louder compared to the midrange than I would like. It very well coud be my room....regards, tony

[chops]

Was my question really that stupid to be completely ignored?!?!

[DrWho]

My hestitation with the JBL is that the dispersion is much much larger

(100x100 versus 90x40 or watever the K77 is). So different rooms are

going to affect the differences between the two differently (ahhh so

hard to word). In other words....the reverberant nature of the sound is

always going to be hotter in the higher frequencies when moving to the

JBL, but the magnitude of this difference is going to be very room

dependant. I personally would avoid these issues altogether and move to

a different lense with a dispersion pattern more similar to that of the

squaker (which will greatly reduce the magnitude of any issues with the

crossover and transition into the squaker).

I think you purchase the 2404 driver seperately...I wonder how it'd sound on a different tweeter lense...

It has also been my impression that the 2404 is better in the lower

ranges of its passband than in the higher regions...but all you old

guys got aging ears and "it's all about the midrange" so perhaps the

compromise from the higher frequencies is a good thing []

[sfogg]

"It has also been my impression that the 2404 is better in the lower

ranges of its passband than in the higher regions..."

Other way around. It is better up top then down low.

Shawn

[jwc]

Was my question really that stupid to be completely ignored?!?!

It isn't a stupid question. I have addressed this point in at least two threads.

I have T35A (k77) with new diaphragms, CT125's and JBL 2404H's. I have said from the beginning that I don't think the CT125 walks all over the K77. I do think there are some advantages of Bob's tweet over the K77. Great replacement tweeter. I don't have plans to purchase anymore Used K77's for any future DIY stuff. Bob has his tweeters rightly priced.

I do think the JBL's are better than the both mentioned above. I really can't describe in words how they are better. I typically find tweeter sounds to be annoying in most speakers and is my limiting factor with turning speakers up loud. With my JBL Baby cheeks, I seem to love tweeter sounds. JBL's are very pricey.

jc

[chops]

Was my question really that stupid to be completely ignored?!?!

It isn't a stupid question. I have addressed this point in at least two threads.

I have T35A (k77) with new diaphragms, CT125's and JBL 2404H's. I have said from the beginning that I don't think the CT125 walks all over the K77. I do think there are some advantages of Bob's tweet over the K77. Great replacement tweeter. I don't have plans to purchase anymore Used K77's for any future DIY stuff. Bob has his tweeters rightly priced.

I do think the JBL's are better than the both mentioned above. I really can't describe in words how they are better. I typically find tweeter sounds to be annoying in most speakers and is my limiting factor with turning speakers up loud. With my JBL Baby cheeks, I seem to love tweeter sounds. JBL's are very pricey.

jc

Thanks jc.

I too don't think the CT125 walks all over the K77.

I do say that they just naturally extend higher up in the bandwidth over the K77, but sound just about the same as the K77 within the K77's range.

Did I just say "K77" too many times?! []

[Q-Man]

I now think that the 2404-H tweeter needs 1 to 1.5db attenuation in my network/speaker.

I didn't think so before, but I wasn't using (so called) high end electronics when I began using this tweeter. With a Yamaha RX-V3000 receiver the tweeter seemed just right. Then I added McIntosh amps and used the RX-V3000 as a pre-amp. Bass and midrange sound improved the most and the tweeter setting was now questionable. I now use a Parasound Halo C1 processor and the sound changed again. The sound once again improved, but now the tweeter is a little hot. I keep the treble controls set below the flat setting to compensate for this. I'm about ready to insert a 1db L-pad into the tweeter networks.

While at my sons college graduation last week I noticed that the school auditorium that I was in was using the 2404-H tweeters in their speaker arrays. See, I always bring my binoculars to these places so I can check out the speakers. It helps me from becoming too bored. I nudged my wife while attempting to hand her the binoculars and saying, "LOOK, they are using my tweeters." That just resulted in a punch to the ribs.

I did buy 3 more of these tweeters a few weeks ago.

What did I just say? Your up stream electronics will also make a difference in the sound that you hear, and this may result in having to do a little tweaking to get things sounding the way that you like.

[Q-Man]

I do think the JBL's are better than the both mentioned above. I really can't describe in words how they are better. I typically find tweeter sounds to be annoying in most speakers and is my limiting factor with turning speakers up loud. With my JBL Baby cheeks, I seem to love tweeter sounds. JBL's are very pricey.

jc

I too never thought too much about tweeter sounds untill I heard the 2404-H tweeter. The difference is like drinking regular water as compared to drinking sparkling water. Or maybe most of you would understand it better if I would say that the difference is like drinking flat beer as compared to opening a fresh bottle.

[Coytee]

I set mine on top the other day and hooked them up. On the right speaker, the 2404 is sandwiched between the two MC-30's (not touching) and on the left speaker, it's next to the MC-2102. Wife has yet to notice...[A]

The sound isn't as black/white as I'd expected but it does seem a bit more ... open? is THAT what you all mean as I might finally be "getting it"??

Unfortunately, my seating position stinks as I'm off to side of one speaker instead of in the sweet spot so perhaps that has helped prevent this from being a black/white difference and brings it out more subtly.

Either way, I think I like the difference and it actually has me even more interested in doing the Trachorn swap but...Mr. Budget and I are currently on bad terms with the 3 ES networks I just bought for my LaScalas, the empty LaScala cabinet and all the plumbing fixtures I bought that is going in the new shower downstairs.

I keep telling myself babysteps.... just keep moving forward and you'll get there (a'la, the Great Wall of Greenback)

[]

[Gilbert]

Q-Man, what speakers are the 2404H's in. I am assuming they're in a pair of ALK modified Khorns with ES xovers. Is this correct?

Also, where did you purchase your 2404's at?

How much for ea., if you don't mind?

[Q-Man]

Q-Man, what speakers are the 2404H's in. I am assuming they're in a pair of ALK modified Khorns with ES xovers. Is this correct?

Also, where did you purchase your 2404's at?

How much for ea., if you don't mind?

No Way.

Right click on my avator and open it. That's a picture of my center channel speaker. It's a Klipschorn bass horn on it's side with an Altec 290-16K 300hz. midrange driver and an Altec 311-90 300hz. midrange horn and the 2404-H tweeter. I use a custom designed network to connect these drivers. I replaced the top hats of my other Klipschorns with these components. I wouldn't use anything but a 300Hz or below midrange horn and driver with a Klipschorn. The bass horn drops off fast over 300Hz.

I'll get back with you tonight, when I get home, on where I bought the tweeters. I forgot their name. I payed about $250.00 each and I bought them because JBL just stopped making them. They are going to continue making them untill they run out of parts. JBL is calling the tweeter 2404-H with the letter I after the H. I'll conferm that also. They added another letter because they no longer have the rubber magnet cover, so they can't call it the same thing. Internally, it's the same driver. I actually got their last 2404-H tweeter and two of the 2404H-I tweeters.