oldbuckster Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I too have tried on several occasions to get into Miles Davis, and just can't follow it(him). I have heard so much about him, Coltrain, and Jazz in general, and just can't seem to focus on their music. Sometimes the music becomes more complex than I like, and the musical jamming doesn't add to the presentation, and I can't figure out where the music is heading, that's just the way I hear it. The Hiss issue is just part of the vinyl experience, and what can you do with old recordings from old equipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I too have tried on several occasions to get into Miles Davis, and just can't follow it(him). I have heard so much about him, Coltrain, and Jazz in general, and just can't seem to focus on their music. Sometimes the music becomes more complex than I like, and the musical jamming doesn't add to the presentation, and I can't figure out where the music is heading, that's just the way I hear it. The Hiss issue is just part of the vinyl experience, and what can you do with old recordings from old equipment? The "hiss issue" relates only to the CD issue and is not part of the "vinyl experience." Did you read this thread all the way through before commenting? LOL! The 1950's gave us some of THE finest recordings of all time. The work done by Roy DuNann and Rudy Van Gelder (among many others) in those years is far superior to MOST of the dreck recorded today. This is NOT an "old recordings from old equipment" issue. Too bad you don't dig jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I have 3 or 4 versions of this album from original vinyl to SACD and the most hiss seems to be on the CDs, the least on the LPs, particularly the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I too have tried on several occasions to get into Miles Davis, and just can't follow it(him). I have heard so much about him, Coltrain, and Jazz in general, and just can't seem to focus on their music. Sometimes the music becomes more complex than I like, and the musical jamming doesn't add to the presentation, and I can't figure out where the music is heading, that's just the way I hear it. The Hiss issue is just part of the vinyl experience, and what can you do with old recordings from old equipment? You may want to give these guys a second chance & listen. The problem may be that these two in particular (Coltrane & Davis) span a number of styles that evolved (avant garde, new thing etc). It may be that the what you disliked was a function of the particular style & era. Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Would you mind telling me what your system is composed of? What player, pre and amp(s)? If you're running solid state, tubes will help a great deal, especiallly if you're running horns. Last and my least favorite would be to EQ the signal, passive, active, parametric or DBX. You could always build a little gain control device to lower the gain and noise ceiling. Many options on the road to audio nirvana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Man, am I glad my hearing sucks. [] Unless I have something like a tube go sideways on me, I am pretty much immune to this type of higher frequency irritant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 You may want to give these guys a second chance & listen. -Tom That's why I haven't ditched this stuff. I know some genre's can take time to appreciate. My solution was to buy a number of introductory Jazz compilations. One of my favorites is "The Contemporary Records Story", a 4 CD set with a forward by Richard S. Ginell. The order code is 4CCD-4441-2 and I purchased this set from Amazon. See link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/103-9649409-8232635?url=index%3Dmusic&search-type=quick-search&field-keywords=the+contemporary+records+story&Go.x=10&Go.y=10 The hiss level is VERY low. The sound quality is awesome and the issue of stereo vs mono isn't a problem. The music just speaks for itself. Now for the life of me I can't remember who recommended I should buy this set... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Without a doubt Columbia would have rolled off the low and high end frequencies on the LP versions--nobody or almost nobody would have had audio equipment that could reproduce it. With the high end rolled off, the hiss would also be diminished. CD versions would have been more like the original recordings, frequencywise, but this is just one of those examples in which extreme frequencies get in the way of enjoyment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Just curious...since I've never heard the original LP or the latest SACD of Kind Of Blue, what's actually considered the best de facto sounding source of this classic recording? The original '50s Columbia vinyl album, or the later remastered editions on CD/SACD, et al (hiss notwithstanding)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I have heard every reissue you can think of except the SACD. Nothing touches the original mono 6-eye pressing. And that includes the 45 rpm Classic Records stereo issue, the 20 bit CD and the original mid-80's Japanese CD. the 6-eye Strero, the 2-eye mono, the 2-eye Stereo and the 70's Columbia issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Thanks for your recommendation, Allan. I have to admit I'm not a real fan of mono recordings, but since you say the 6-eye mono pressing is deemed the cleanest of all the reissues, I'll keep my 2-eyes (pun intended) peeled for a copy. I would assume they're rather hard to find, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Hey, Jim. I may be a bit slow on this but what I've noticed with mono recordings is that if that they were originally mixed for mono, they have all the depth, sparkle and soundstage of many stereo recordings. On the other hand if a recording has been mixed for stereo, as soon as they are mono'd, the whole thing collapses into a one dimensional mess. Conversely, I've been disappointed with previously issued mono recording that have been re-issued in stereo. Somehow the new releases lack the impact and truthfulness of the original mix. I know there's lots of stuff out there that HAD been mixed for stereo or even three channel, and were released at the time in vanilla mono or stereo. Their later release in the original mix has been gobsmacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Thanks for the tip, Edwin. Seems to make perfect sense to me...if the original master tapes were properly mixed in mono, that any later pressings would sound equally good. I was never too keen on original mono recordings that were later mixed to stereo...they always sounded thin and lifeless to me. Like colorizing old movies that were originally black and white...they always look flat and pastey, and very artificial.[:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 More than you wanted to know about KOB from SH.TV Sounds like the hiss is on the original two track tapes. Copies without the hiss has been either no-noised or eq'd to death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 I too have tried on several occasions to get into Miles Davis, and just can't follow it(him). I have heard so much about him, Coltrain, and Jazz in general, and just can't seem to focus on their music. Sometimes the music becomes more complex than I like, and the musical jamming doesn't add to the presentation, and I can't figure out where the music is heading, that's just the way I hear it. The Hiss issue is just part of the vinyl experience, and what can you do with old recordings from old equipment? The "hiss issue" relates only to the CD issue and is not part of the "vinyl experience." Did you read this thread all the way through before commenting? LOL! The 1950's gave us some of THE finest recordings of all time. The work done by Roy DuNann and Rudy Van Gelder (among many others) in those years is far superior to MOST of the dreck recorded today. This is NOT an "old recordings from old equipment" issue. Too bad you don't dig jazz. Yes, I read the post all the way through, it's as confusing as I find Jazz. I was not knocking anyone, just making a personal observation. We all know the first release of CD's is no where as good as you get today with remasters. You will never make me believe that recordings made in the 50's and 60's, are as good as todays recordings. They didn't have the equipment or technical skills that are available today. Talent is talent no matter what year it is recorded, the recording of that talent is a different issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 They didn't have the equipment or technical skills that are available today. Talent is talent no matter what year it is recorded, the recording of that talent is a different issue. Funny that Neumann microphones made in the 1950's are still considered the BEST for vocals and that they sell for HUNDREDS of times what they sold for when new. Just because something is new and high-tech doesn't make it better. Just ask some of those folks who prefer speakers designed 60 years ago! I don't think anyone has even APPROACHED what Roy DuNann did at Contemporary in the late 1950's and early 1960's in the past couple of decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 More than you wanted to know about KOB from SH.TV In that thread, Steve Hoffman said, The three-track to two-track DSD SACD single layer is the version I prefer; just listened to it again yesterday. It has "that sound"! End of quote. Sad, isn't it, that certain people are so anti SACD that they won't listen to anything on that format. Oh, well, just one of those funny things about human psychology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 They didn't have the equipment or technical skills that are available today. Talent is talent no matter what year it is recorded, the recording of that talent is a different issue. Funny that Neumann microphones made in the 1950's are still considered the BEST for vocals and that they sell for HUNDREDS of times what they sold for when new. Just because something is new and high-tech doesn't make it better. Just ask some of those folks who prefer speakers designed 60 years ago! I don't think anyone has even APPROACHED what Roy DuNann did at Contemporary in the late 1950's and early 1960's in the past couple of decades. That's a simple answer to a more complex subject. Whatever I write won't be right, Equipment today is light years ahead of old equipment. There will always be people who prefer older vintage equipment, no matter what, that's fine. The same can apply recordings, and cars, and motorcycles, and cameras. I'm sorry I even jumped on this thread, and I will leave it now, I meant no harm or disrespect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 One serious problem with a lot of pop/rock remastered CDs is that there is not *enough* hiss. If there is no hiss, you can bet the high end has been tampered with, and there's no way to get rid of hiss without damaging the high frequency musical content as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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