Punch anyone?

[risingjay]

Who here has got a lot of punch in the low end of thier system? I'm talking about it hits you in the chest without using a subwoofer.

I just picked up a QSC PLX 3402 and yes the bass inproved, but the chest pounding just wasn't there like I expected it to be.

My brother-in-law lives next door and has the Corus II's like I do mated to a Sunfire Signature series amp and it will punch you all day long!

Here is what I got:

Chorus II's

Juicymusic Xtreme

AH! 4000 cd player

QSC PLX 3402

Outlaw audio interconnects

Monster Cable M1 series speaker wire.

My room isn't completely sealed but then niether is my brother-in-laws.

What's up?

[Speedball]

Now that IS interesting after hearing so much about the QSC's , a tube preamp with solid state amplification, and Klipsch.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Who here has got a lot of punch in the low end of thier system? I'm talking about it hits you in the chest without using a subwoofer.

I just picked up a QSC PLX 3402 and yes the bass inproved, but the chest pounding just wasn't there like I expected it to be.

My brother-in-law lives next door and has the Corus II's like I do mated to a Sunfire Signature series amp and it will punch you all day long!

Here is what I got:

Chorus II's

Juicymusic Xtreme

AH! 4000 cd player

QSC PLX 3402

Outlaw audio interconnects

Monster Cable M1 series speaker wire.

My room isn't completely sealed but then niether is my brother-in-laws.

What's up?

What front end does your brother in law have?

Can you bring his amp over to your place and try it with your front end? I am really curious as to the result.

On another note, I didn't buy the 3402 because Musicians Friend told me that it required a power chord adapter to plug it in. How does it hook up?

The bass on my B&W's seems a little light and I have been wanting to try my Peach and AH! to see if it makes a difference. I have Amperex tubes in the AH and a Sovtec "Rocket" in the Peach.

Chris

[risingjay]

He is runing a Acurus R11 pre and Rotel CD player. Hopefully we'll switch out the amp tomarrow.

As for the power cord, it's detachable. plugs in just like the juicymusic plugs. I bought this amp used. It's a year old. paid $700.

Don't get me wrong, the bass did improve, just not the punch in the chest.

That punch is addicting and has been my quest.

[risingjay]

There is a widow behind each speaker. Would this effect anything?

Just throwing it out there.

[Marvel]

Having windows behind your speakers can be a pane. (hopefully you menat windows and not widows)

May be THE difference.

Bruce

[stormin]

This is why i asked how the peach performed with the volume travel. I have a 2422 which is basically a 2402 i guess and it kicks my chorus II's with major authority. But it is not with the luxman as a pre that i have this effect. I can go full travel on volume with luxman and it sounds good but it wont kick me. Now when i switch to my marantz 2325 as a pre this thing wakes up and kicks the crap out of me at 11:00 am on the volume control.

They talk about this exact situation with various preamps connected to QSC amplifiers over at basstalk.com.

Now your 3402 is what 700@8ohms . It should be beating you to death but you might have a pre mismatch going on. They designed these QSC's with such a low output impedance that i believe they are very hard to match up correctly.

But trust me this things pushes my sternum back.

Glass behind the passives? HMMMMMMMMM dont know i have solid corners behind my passives. I have owned chorus II's for almost 16 years and this 2422 is by far the hardest hitting, cleanest and smoothest amp i have ever had paired to them.

[risingjay]

No widows back there. Windows, yes.

Windows can seriously be the difference?

[risingjay]

So what's the solution here?

[IB Slammin]

Now that IS interesting after hearing so much about the QSC's , a tube preamp with solid state amplification, and Klipsch.

Ball,

Not unheard of, and works well for me.

Two nasty old SS Luxman M-117's in BTL, and a sweet little JMA tube preamp front to control and tame the beasts. The combination has really grown on me.

JMA Merlin preamp, Two Lux M117's power amps , into "Alcorns" (Heavily braced CW bins, Altec 511b/902 mids, CT125 tweets, custom JWC filters) YUM......

The combination of tube and SS continues to allow me to.....B. Slammin with a bit of grace.

tc

[stormin]

So what's the solution here?

Is there any way to find another location for the chorus II's? If these were front ported,sealed or bottom passive speakers i dont believe you would be having near the problems with the bass with your equipment and location. But since chorus II's bass is reinforced off the back corner or wall due to rear passive i tend to believe no matter what equipment you use your bass will be lacking.

And once again i do not know if your pre is a good match for the 3402.

Sometimes these things can be frustrating. You grab ideas that folks throw around and try to incorporate them into your own environment and system and find things to not be as expected. So many variables to achieving that perfect sound.

Nice thing is you know what your speakers are capable of so its just fnding the right combination of gear/room to make it work for you.

[kev313]

If it's not the amp, not the pre, and not the speakers, then it must be the placement. Try some other location, even if it isn't your top long-term candidate, to confirm that your gear produces the sound that you are looking for.

[sunburnwilly]

Aw Heck , Just throw a big sub in the mix and be done with it .

[risingjay]

So what's the solution here?

Is there any way to find another location for the chorus II's? If these were front ported,sealed or bottom passive speakers i dont believe you would be having near the problems with the bass with your equipment and location. But since chorus II's bass is reinforced off the back corner or wall due to rear passive i tend to believe no matter what equipment you use your bass will be lacking.

And once again i do not know if your pre is a good match for the 3402.

Sometimes these things can be frustrating. You grab ideas that folks throw around and try to incorporate them into your own environment and system and find things to not be as expected. So many variables to achieving that perfect sound.

Nice thing is you know what your speakers are capable of so its just fnding the right combination of gear/room to make it work for you.

Do you think a pair of Chorus I's would be better since they are ported?

[stormin]

Who here has got a lot of punch in the low end of thier system? I'm talking about it hits you in the chest without using a subwoofer.

My brother-in-law lives next door and has the Corus II's like I do mated to a Sunfire Signature series amp and it will punch you all day long!:

With this statement alone i would of looked at other candidates rather than the speakers as being the problem.

[stormin]

Aw Heck , Just throw a big sub in the mix and be done with it .

With the monster sub like you just brought home i can imagine.[]

[Duke Spinner]

just picked up a QSC PLX 3402 and yes the bass inproved, but the chest pounding just wasn't there like I expected it to be.

My brother-in-law lives next door and has the Corus II's like I do mated to a Sunfire Signature series amp and it will punch you all day long!

pre amp drive / impedance mismatch .....

my Crown K does what you want, but my pre amp can out out 30 volts ...

does the QSC have adjustable input sensitiviy..????

[ironwoods]

(hopefully you menat windows and not widows)

Bruce

Hopefully you meant meant, and not menat.

Menat;

A necklace that has several rows of beads that gather into a counterweight at the back of the neck. It was worn by the Egyptian goddess Hathor and symbolized the divine powers of healing.

[]

[stormin]

just picked up a QSC PLX 3402 and yes the bass inproved, but the chest pounding just wasn't there like I expected it to be.

My brother-in-law lives next door and has the Corus II's like I do mated to a Sunfire Signature series amp and it will punch you all day long!

pre amp drive / impedance mismatch .....

my Crown K does what you want, but my pre amp can out out 30 volts ...

does the QSC have adjustable input sensitiviy..????

No they dont Duke and it really is a shame. Folks thinking that the QSC doesnt have enough guts obviously arent seeing the true potential of the amp or the design. This amp is kickin my arse and has plenty of power to spare.

[SET12]

Who here has got a lot of punch in the low end of thier system? I'm talking about it hits you in the chest without using a subwoofer.

I just picked up a QSC PLX 3402 and yes the bass inproved, but the chest pounding just wasn't there like I expected it to be.

My brother-in-law lives next door and has the Corus II's like I do mated to a Sunfire Signature series amp and it will punch you all day long!

Here is what I got:

Chorus II's

Juicymusic Xtreme

AH! 4000 cd player

QSC PLX 3402

Outlaw audio interconnects

Monster Cable M1 series speaker wire.

My room isn't completely sealed but then niether is my brother-in-laws.

What's up?

risingjay,

It sounds like your a little confused on power and its relation to dynamics none of which are even remotely related to one another in my opinion, I learned this early on in my audio journey mid way I was able to purse it in greater depth and able to incorporate my experiance in some experiments of tube circuits to my current amplifiers.

If your into solid-state gear with klipsch's I can steer you in a couple of directions to look at one amp with alot of punch and very large soundstage is a Forte model 4 that I owned it is just 50 watts/channel the amp had a clone of the same circuit only a higher voltage rail to produce some 200/watts channel known as the model 6 the 50 just smoked the 200 in every area so why did that happen? Well maybe because the Forte was biased into heavy Class A some 12 watts I believe when the 200 watter is likely to have just a couple! Higher bias currents allow greater sensitivity to incoming driver stages the Forte all so had 8 output devices/channel and very large power supply although these points are indicative of performance in my book they aren't necessarly written in stone either but if you look at the best amps you will see these things usually you do not see this in AV stuff typically another great performer was a Harmon Kardon PA2200 I think rated at 100/channel this amp is a real sleeper very musical warm for solid state dynamic as heck I owned this as well and my best friend is now using it as a referance amp to design speakers with. He tried a vintage Crown amp that was more powerful in numbers but it was no match for the HK the Crown has been in the closet for some time!

For myself I am into tube gear. I can hardly listen to Klipsch with solid state as well as a couple other friends of mine I feel the best of Klipsch comes out with tube gear from a full range point of view, and I'm sure many think that there is noway any tube gear could produce the punch of solid state, Well I can tell you that not only that it can it can even exceed solid state in dynamic punch maybe not pitch defination something that I have never heard a Klipsch do well ( pitch ) in my opinion and I have not heard any Subs that have had great pitch defination either their may be a few today.

My own SET amps are very capable of punch in you chest and feeling it in your chair as Paul Klipsch would say all you need with his speakers is a good 5 watt amp and that's just what I'm using a 5.5 watt RMS that is. A few seasoned audiophiles from my club hear in Wisconsin have had the pleasure to witness punch from a SET and were a little taken by surprise rest asured their opinion of flea power dynamics has changed and since the topic of tone control use has come up on the forum I might add that I use none and I use no preamp either which has been found to be a source limitation in dynamics as well this allows me to put more funds towards more higher performance CD playback I am into LP's as well if you look through some of my posts you will see it is a very serious piece of gear with a power supply that is bigger than many power amps. As far as power supplies are concerned with tube gear I find most classic designed supplies the chief limiting factor often with small, high henry values and and high DC resistance the other way around works better. or even none at all this can be done if their is sufficent supply cap's I prefer pure pentode mode over Ultra Linear mode for dynamic punch in push-pull tube amps and easy thing to convert to.

After one mod to my SET amps for just 50 cents worth of parts I was enjoying some rather nice double bass from a jazz recording and I got a phone call from my neighbor, she asked if I was playing music in my garge, I said no! Why! well she said the pictures on her walls were moving, I said your kidding me! No she said! I said I'll move my gear to my basement listening room then, She said oh no you don't have to do that I just though you wanted to know! I said thanks and my brother looked at me shaking his head saying no way over and over again finally he looked at the wall then the cieling and then at me and proclaimed he knew how it was being done as her living room and mine were seperated buy two garges between us! Acoustic energy was travelling up the wall studs then into the roof trusts down the roof line and back into a trust down into her wall that was just incrediable to me at the time all from a simple mod to a filament supply.

If you would like to hear a powerful SET I would recommend a Cary single-ended mono blocks equiped with the 211 output tube and not the 845 the 211 has the guts over the 845 not that there aren't any out there but all SET's are not created equall one of my next projects will envolve an 833 tube a substanially more dynamic tube than either the 211 or my own 572 amps.

SET12