Jubilee orders

[Deang]

LOL.

"Isn't the main thing going for the Jubilee that it is a two-way?"

Two ways are great. I've used and preferred their sound over three or more-ways most of my life. Good two-ways sound more cohesive and coherent. One of the things that disappointed me after moving to the Klipschorns from the RF-7s was that I often felt the sound was a bit disjointed by comparison. So, sure, the two-way aspect is definitely a big plus from my point of view. Really, I was only tossing out the idea that some might like a tweeter on top. It doesn't matter that most of us only hear to 15kHz -- a tweeter covering that range will sound quite a bit different than a large format driver with some boost on the end. Look at the people who have gone to the small format Altec drivers that stay relatively flat almost out to 20kHz, and how many of them still opt to add a tweeter. Some that don't often use tone controls or EQ to get some sparkle/crispness back into the top, and some decide to do nothing -- liking the sound just the way it is. If had the setup, I might like the sound just the way it is -- or I might not. That's the sweet thing about the move to the Jubilee bottoms -- a wide range of choices.

I was talking to BEC earlier in the week about all this, and he says there's a big difference in sound between the big horn and little horn. It may end up that people who go for the full blown deal with the big horn won't feel the need for a tweeter, whereas those who decide the big horn is either too big or too ugly, and opt to go with something smaller -- might end up wanting to use one.

"If it's made into a three-way, why not stick with the tried and true Khorn?"

Because using a tweeter to get good coverage of that last octave isn't the same as having to use a tweeter with a K-55 that's starting to crap out at 5kHz. In my Khorns I don't bring the tweeter in until very late, and I'm getting well over four octaves from the JBLs/Trachorns. IOWs, cohesiveness and coherency improve when you stretch as much across the middle as you can.

No one should kid themselves here, the Jubilee is a big upgrade over the stock Klipschorn. The bass horn is better because it has a smoother response with lower distortion, and since it plays higher you can use higher quality midrange drivers. Lastly, because you don't need corners means you can make your own sweet spot.

"Cuz some of us can't stand the nasties of the khorn bass bin."

They need to be on solid outside walls, or situated in strong false corners. Placed on inside walls, the whole room starts resonating, and yeah, it sounds like crap. As far as response and phasing issues go -- the bumps in the response work good for my music, and I've pretty much decided that as long as you stick with a single coil (or none at all) -- it sounds "right".

"As far as EQ... it isn't needed; just build the horn correctly."

Whatcha gonna build -- a 4 foot long exponential? I want to be wrong on this one, I really do.

"I understand the fear of the unknown factor..."

It doesn't have anything to do with fear, it simply has to do with being curious about some things, and maybe thinking one has a right to know what they are buying into.

"...so perhaps we can get Klipsch to provide us with a frequency response and rough polar plots?"

Like the ones they give us for all the other speakers they sell? Hey, I just want to know about the extension, and what I lose if I go with a smaller horn.

"I know Mike has an ETF, so perhaps he wouldn't mind sharing some measurements?"

I'm sure he will.

[DrWho]

Cuz some of us can't stand the nasties of the khorn bass bin []

now, now Who ....

you , and Audio Bliss with a KH ........

...........................................................................are only 7 ms. apart......[]

lol, and about 10dB centered at 200Hz...[][+o(]

[DrWho]

How would you go about trying to quantify the issues with the 2-way

altecs and their "lack of oompf" at the high-end? I'd argue that it is

directly related to room-acoustics and the effects of the off-axis

response (aka, less HF information for the indirect sound). Those horns

are of the exponential type and are extremely beamy. By moving to a

tweeter you now have a much wider dispersion for the upper band which

is going to affect mostly the indirect sound. But if going this

approach I would go with an entirely different horn for the midrange so

that there are less compromises (cuz then you don't need the same HF extension).

[j-malotky]

Those horns

are of the exponential type and are extremely beamy.

When I was describing why I did not care for the gigantic 402 horn matched with the Jubilee bass bin, in that previous Hope trip thread. Mike, I think you just describing what I heard.

The music sounded like it was comming directly from the driver. Way to much sound from such a small spot IMO.

JM

[Deang]

What Mike was alluding to is that most who try the two-way approach with the small format Altec drivers are using either the 511 or 811 -- which are exponential horns. The dispersion pattern narrows with increasing frequency to keep on-axis response stable, but at the expense of off-axis response. A lot of what makes up in-room power response is from the off-axis stuff, and it plays a big part in what we hear. I'm inclined to agree with what he's saying -- he's right. As to your take on what you heard with the big horn, it's an interesting take and since I've never heard it I don't know what to make of it. The 402 is a tractrix horn, and by all accounts should sound outstanding. Maybe your perception had more to do with the signature of the titanium driver.

[mikebse2a3]

Those horns are of the exponential type and are extremely beamy.

When I was describing why I did not care for the gigantic 402 horn matched with the Jubilee bass bin, in that previous Hope trip thread. Mike, I think you just describing what I heard.

The music sounded like it was comming directly from the driver. Way to much sound from such a small spot IMO.

JM

Remember the demonstration was in Mono and depending on how close the sound source was to the microphone the effect would be exactly the effect you described. I actually believe the effect you mention shows just how accurate the 402 horn was in reproducing the source material and if you had been given a Stereo Demonstration I believe the Imaging would have bennefited from this coherant ability and because this very important effect is what allows a speakers to disappear when playing multychannel source material.

mike[]

[seti]

At the 2005 Hope gathering we listened to each of the jubilees seperately with different horns and I didn't think they sounded that different. I can't remember who asked if we could hear both Jubilees at once but thanks whoever that was because the saying is true double your pleasure double your fun : )

[Daddy Dee]

I'd chime in here with Seti. I didn't find a noticeable difference in sound between these two Jubilee speakers.

What I mean by "noticeable" was that in casual listening as the two were switched and then played together, if they had been behind a screen, I wouldn't have noticed a difference in sound.

I didn't think anything was missing from one or the other better.

Didn't look all that close, but I think the Jubilee with the small horn was fairly close in size to the wooden horn so often seen in the Jubilee pic with Mr. Paul.

[Duke Spinner]

the difference is ..

throw ...

not an issue at home

[Me Loves Khorns]

Coyote,

Any updates on the ole Jub project?

Paul

[Duke Spinner]

the difference is ..

throw ...

not an issue at home

no interest in discussing ,,,"throw" .....???

it's a very interesting subject ....

[ZAKO]

Duke you are correct in the average living room Long throw is over kill......But I like the way it tickles my toes......That is what alot of guys are buying these days. Look at the big 5 inch thick turntable platters ,,,Over kill,,,,Your not cutting a disc.....The Jubilee can use a sensible Horn like the Smith DSH horn design...I know, I know its not a track trix But it would be a good two way balance. Boy oh boy I would like to try that configuration.

[Coytee]

Duke you are correct in the average living room Long throw is over kill......But I like the way it tickles my toes......That is what alot of guys are buying these days. Look at the big 5 inch thick turntable platters ,,,Over kill,,,,Your not cutting a disc.....The Jubilee can use a sensible Horn like the Smith DSH horn design...I know, I know its not a track trix But it would be a good two way balance. Boy oh boy I would like to try that configuration.

Well, get your horn & jump in your car & get a moving... I'll give you the keys to the system just like I did JC & Mark. You can fiddle til you're blue in the face.

As you leave, you can leave the horn you brought [6]

[Coytee]

Coyote,

Any updates on the ole Jub project?

Paul

Typing from Atlanta: Nope []

Continue to be simply impressed & amazed with what they're capable of, both in the low volume arena and shall I say, the less than low volume arena?

[Coytee]

Good thing Paul, that you don't get yourself a pair... you'd have to change your screen name!

[A]

[Me Loves Khorns]

I may have missed the pertinent thread, but are they in yet?

Paul

[Coytee]

I may have missed the pertinent thread, but are they in yet?

Paul

Heres the story of them being made and delivered to each of us. The first 11 pages are from the build process. The delivery process starts on about page 11

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/11/767705/ShowThread.aspx

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Heref more from Mike. Since hes more articulate on things like this, I dont recall that I really started a thread like this.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/795425.aspx

I know you have an interesting job and all, but you really got to get your head up more often!!

[A] [A] [A] [6]

[colterphoto1]

At the 2005 Hope gathering we listened to each of the jubilees seperately with different horns and I didn't think they sounded that different. I can't remember who asked if we could hear both Jubilees at once but thanks whoever that was because the saying is true double your pleasure double your fun : )

That was my take on it also. I thought, why bother with that huge horn when the smaller one sounds exactly the same?

M