jwc Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 I know there is a difference of opinion of the woofers to try. I'm hoping and fairly sure I will like the Kappas better. BUT! Dana was quoting the T/S of the pioneer "51F" model. In another thread....it was qouted to use the "51D" model: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-125 SPL: 96 dB 1W/1m * Vas: 12.68 cu. ft. * Xmax: 2.5mm * Qms: 1.86 * Qes: .18 * Qts: .16 * Fs: 23 Hz * The big diffference here is that the Qms is way off and the Qts and Qes are dead on. I know this sounds rediculous...but...I actually have both sets. Believe it or not....PE sent me 2 of the 51D and the 2 of the 51F. However, paid for all of them. Was gonna send back the 51D but noticed those particular ones mentioned in another thread. I guess what I can do is try out the Kappas......like em, and then send all of the pioneers back. I am a little bothered by the mouth of my clone being a TAD larger than the AES Jubilee. I know this shouldn't make any difference but I am almost sure that when I looked at the real Jubilee...it was smaller than what was quoted in the paper. I wonder is todays product is different than the paper. Anyway......I doubt it will make a difference. Just one of those principle things. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Jc, I have not been following this thread carefully enugh, so you may have already answered this, but did you attempt to find out exactly what drivers Klipsch is using in the Jubilee and make an attempt to get them? The reason I ask is that attempts to get an answer about the complex Zo of the woofer in the horn from Roy were totally stone-walled. I would love to see the same woofer in yours so we can get the data for the "official" verison. BTW: That's a beautiful job your doing. I wish I had the equipment and skill to do woodwork like that! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 Al. All I know is what is in the AES article. I don't know what is in the real jub. I have read all threads that I know of regarding the jubilee. Nothing mentioned of the driver. The Klipsch driver would obviously work great here. However, what I would like to do is find drivers that work that are available to anyone. That is why I need to try more than one option. It makes for a great learning experience as is all of this stuff. As Dana posted earlier, here is the T/S in the article jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Jc, I will let you pick the driver that will be used. That is out of my area of expertice. Once they are in the horn we can measure the Zo and do the network accordingly. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 JC, the mouth size is rather up in the air anyway! Don't worry about it - you have an inch of play on either side before you change the flare rate of that section to an appreciable degree. That is a change of 39 sq.inches in a mouth size of over 720 sq. in! Big deal!!! It ain't a precision thing, kids! It just has to be a certain minimum size. The Khorn is 675 sq. in, so you are easily in the ball park. BTW, that isn't the mouth, anyway! That is the "terminal exit". In corner horns of this type, the walls and floor form a portion of the horn AFTER the soundwave exits the cabinet, so the expansion continues for a bit. Perhaps not quite as much as the Khorn being that the side-firing variety exhausts directly along the walls, but it will still be there. A larger exit area would aid in 1/4 space placement, but for 1/8th space, it is well within "tolerance". The total mouth size of a 40Hz 1/8th space (corner) horn is approximately 1138 sq.inches or Keele's optimum mouth size of 1030 sq. in. See what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 Ahh. Yes....misuse of terminology. Lets just say at the Exit or Point D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Of course, we can still call the terminus the "mouth" as a matter of convenience and we'll all know what we mean. I just wanted to clarify the mouth size issue for others who might be confused why the numbers don't line up with the formulas. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 JC, Are you building a pair or just one? Whatever....it's coming beautiful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 Just one for now. I don't have the work space to do two at a time. Also.....I need to make sure I get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 JC - How will you gain access to the doghouse when they're completed? Will the bottom will be removable, similar to La Scala?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Youre doing a fantastic job. You must be eager to fire it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share Posted October 2, 2006 There will be top and bottom access with a "door" with T-nuts. The terminals will be on the top door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Must say, my hat is off to you & your skills. I realize carting these things around isn't something to be taken lightly, but thought I'd say... If you want to schlep that monster up my way, you can do a side by side with the store bought version and you can see how it compares. I clearly know how much I'd want to cart one of these things around so I don't expect you to do so... but I wanted to let you know the offer is there, should you be curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 JC's will sound better due to the 45 degree fillets at the first 90 degree turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Well... I could put some fillets in mine too... would you recommend Cod, Perch or Salmon? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 sure, cook some up while you read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fillet_(mechanics) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share Posted October 3, 2006 Richard. I'll take you up on that offer. I do plan on taking my time with some testing. I also have other projects in mind that I may need to get out of the way as well. It really isn't that big of a problem getting one there. You saw how I lugged those dbb's to Hope. I have it down now. The big problem is that it is hard for me to get away due to work. I could also bring my RTA setup. Hey! When will you start you basemant project and what are you gonna do about a subwoofer? I think the breaking point of the this project will be the drivers. I guess there could be a chance that the kappas may sound unbelievable in there. I can only hope. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Hey! When will you start you basemant project and what are you gonna do about a subwoofer? are you volunteering for the drywall installer position I will have available? The pay sucks but the music will be great!! [] [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 I think the breaking point of the this project will be the drivers. I guess there could be a chance that the kappas may sound unbelievable in there. I can only hope. jc I would think that the Kappa-Pros might not be completely horrible in them... Done the math? DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share Posted October 3, 2006 That's a good one. I don't know the first thing about drywall. Before (in a thread) you had talked about a Horn Subwoofer to keep up with the Jubilees. I was just wondering if you had given anymore thought to that since you will be building an HT system. I know there are several horn subs out there. Everyone recently is talking about the Danley subs. However, you may be looking for something to "match" the jubs. Just curious on your though process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 I'm wondering if you misread my questions on that thread or perhaps more likely, I wasn't well spoken. I've always planned on getting a sub. I've had that notion in my brain for probably 10 years and my concern was always "will this sub "keep up" with my LaScalas" Move up to Khorns and now move up to Jubilees With the Jubilees doing what they do, I don't really feel the need for a sub. Perhaps in time that will change. What I was trying to say by my post you refer to was: With the performance of the Jubilees as it is, if I WERE to add a sub, is it worth (to me) the cost and size of a sub to gain the incremental gain over the stock Jubilees? Basic point being, how much is enough? I'm SO tickled with what the Jubilees do that answer for me, is currently "no", it would NOT be worth the money spent and just as important, the space required to add a sub into the system. I think it's become a point of diminishing return for me, at least for now. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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