RF-7's or Chorus II's???

[Zen Traveler]

Btw, most of the folks at Klipsch would tell you that the biggest shortcoming of the RF7 is the midrange...

There you have it--It's almost like you heard it from Klipsch themselves...[]

[Fish]

Btw, most of the folks at Klipsch would tell you that the biggest shortcoming of the RF7 is the midrange...

There you have it--It's almost like you heard it from Klipsch themselves...[]

LOL,I don't think one or two with their own personal preference could be classified as most.I'd love to hear "their" take on their latest ref offering,they must really be bummed.Not to mention that they already made the 7's,I got some and don't care what "they" think as it relates to the 7's,they musta outdone themselves.Way to go Klipsch!

[Audio Flynn]

Interesting. I hadn't really thought about that

before. I guess you're talking about the two 10's and the

high crossover point? You're saying they're starting to beam before

they reach the crossover point, that off-axis response is poor, and so

the midrange unloads poorly into the room. Maybe some of us miss

out on this particular problem because we sit close to our

speakers -- is that possible?

Too analytical for me.

let us look at this totally subjective

1. RF-7 looks like a scrawny pup; the runt of the littter for floor standers

2. Copper colored woofer cone in a loudspeaker; Heaven help us!

3. Chorus II has a much more robust grill design.

My Chorus IIs went from very nice soundstage and detail to amazing due to JM Blueberry and Dean network upgrade this year!

Hope this helps.

[]

1.rf7 is LARGER than most Klipsch speakers,although not 3ft wide,a plus for most.

2.Copper woofer helped Klipsch make a flat fortune,I could take or leave it.

3.Do you play with the grills,had mine 4 years grandkids and all,NO problem,just like new.

4.If you prefer Chorus enjoy,I just can't understand why people bash

a Klipsch product,I guess to make them feel better about their

choice/find.

WOW

Just kidding Fish; do try to take the forum a bit less serious.

I had WHELL's RF-7 in my house for a day and really liked them. As I

have asserted before; " they are all flavors of really good ice cream".

RF-5 were going in my van at the INDY KLIPSCH fest 2 years ago but the

local dealer was out of stock and could not make good on the "weekend

deal" Klipsch corp had arranged.

I have no problem with Reference series.

[Fish]

Interesting. I hadn't really thought about that before. I guess you're talking about the two 10's and the high crossover point? You're saying they're starting to beam before they reach the crossover point, that off-axis response is poor, and so the midrange unloads poorly into the room. Maybe some of us miss out on this particular problem because we sit close to our speakers -- is that possible?

Too analytical for me.

let us look at this totally subjective

1. RF-7 looks like a scrawny pup; the runt of the littter for floor standers

2. Copper colored woofer cone in a loudspeaker; Heaven help us!

3. Chorus II has a much more robust grill design.

My Chorus IIs went from very nice soundstage and detail to amazing due to JM Blueberry and Dean network upgrade this year!

Hope this helps.

[]

1.rf7 is LARGER than most Klipsch speakers,although not 3ft wide,a plus for most.

2.Copper woofer helped Klipsch make a flat fortune,I could take or leave it.

3.Do you play with the grills,had mine 4 years grandkids and all,NO problem,just like new.

4.If you prefer Chorus enjoy,I just can't understand why people bash a Klipsch product,I guess to make them feel better about their choice/find.

WOW

Just kidding Fish; do try to take the forum a bit less serious.

I had WHELL's RF-7 in my house for a day and really liked them. As I have asserted before; " they are all flavors of really good ice cream".

RF-5 were going in my van at the INDY KLIPSCH fest 2 years ago but the local dealer was out of stock and could not make good on the "weekend deal" Klipsch corp had arranged.

I have no problem with Reference series.

I hear ya,and I do take much less seriously than you'd think.I like to play the game sometimes too though for fun.All in good fun(I hope).I don't really care who(no pun)likes what speakers but it's great fun to come to the defense of my beloved 7's.

[DrWho]

Well if you like them that's all that matters []

Hopefully the little extra going back and forth is helping out the

person that started the thread wondering about what to do. Sounds like

the age old case of give them a listen and decide for yourself. I can't

imagine anyone being overly dissapointed either way.

[Fish]

Well if you like them that's all that matters []

I can't imagine anyone being overly dissapointed either way.

Overly disappointed? what's that suppose to imply? ha....sorry who,I could'nt resist.

[Jay481985]

The effects of the baffle are also a pretty well understood aspect of

acoustics - the conclusion being that a larger baffle is better. It

reduces distortion (less cone movement needed for the same SPL),

increases power output and improves the off-axis response. The tall

narrow and deep design of the RF-7 is a tradeoff to increase its WAF.

What is it, a 3 foot deep cabinet? That would correspond to reflection

induced phase cancellation at 90Hz and standing waves every harmonic of

360Hz. There will be similar issues from the height of the cabinet as

well though they would also be present in the CII.

the RF-7 is 22 inches deep I believe while the rf-83 is 28 inches.

Also a wide baffle does increase reflections and such. That and WAF is why most new speakers are tall and thin.

[Bonzo]

Funny how such a defensive posture is raised when we all love klipsch speakers. I really havent seen any bashing in this thread but more of a like dislike of each and personal preference. So you like the RF7's and little timmy likes the chorus II's. Big deal, nobody on the planet has made a perfect speaker yet so its all about indivdual tastes.

Now we do all believe that one speaker maker PWK made some great speakers and made many different models for all of our tastes and his legend continues with each and every new klipsch speaker.

I dont believe anyone is trying to step on anyones egos or toes. Just giving personal advice from experience and our own likes and dislikes.

So chill out and go enjoy some tunes on your KLIPSCH speakers!!!!!!!

Oh and by the way CHORUS II's ROCK!!!!!!!! []

Very well said stormin! I'm sure if I had a quality kilo-watt amp, I may like the RF-7 more than I already do. Unfortunately, I have a modest 100 watt Nakamichi receiver that I'm sure is not doing the RF-7's justice. Hence, I bought a Velodyne HGS12 servo sub to round out the low end. Maybe it's my room and limited placement options but I just can't seem to get them integrated to my liking. It is just my humble opinion that you can't beat a quality 15 incher for low end. The Emminence driver in the II's is a quality driver. May not have the frequency range of say a JBL 2235H but still gets the job done. Oh, I used to have a pair of Chorus I's that have the same driver. Looking back, I should have kept them. Went to JBL 4430's. Great speaker, 0 WAF, and I didn't have the power to make them sing!

I am auditioning the Chorus II's on Monday. If I buy them, I will be able to do an A/B with the 7's. "I'm as curious as a tree full of hoot owls" to find out how that will go! Sorry, every once in a while I have to quote my grandfather.

[jacksonbart]

Come on we all know that Klipsch has not built a decent speaker since the Chorus. All later designs just plain suck, klipsch told me so. Just give it up, the Chorus is better than the tubby bass of the Khorn for cheeze and rice, just accept it, I mix music for a livin, do you?

[Deang]

Another thing that I find interestingly never mentioned is the ringing of the aluminum diaphragms. They've got a pretty nasty sharp peak at 9kHz (? I forget the actual number, but I've seen the measurements). It is a design tradeoff to maintain a stiff enough cone without sacrificing efficiency.

Are we allowed to talk about this? How come you didn't have to sign the verbal non-disclosure agreement with Klipsch like I did?

There is an artifact/spike in the tweeter's (titanium) response around 9-10 kHz. If it's removed, the RF-7 becomes a 99-100dB speaker. The spike corresponds to a dip in impedance at that point.

The cones ring a bit, something I wasn't aware of until a certain person asked me how I got rid of the ringing after they heard a pair of modded RF-7s. Transfer Function was done on a set my modded networks in Indy a couple of years ago, which revealed a 2dB departure from stock centered at around 3.5kHz. I found this interesting since the only part value I actually change is the resistor in the LCR circuit used to bring down the horn's resonant peak (2 ohms to 1.66 ohms), and I certainly don't see how this could account for any reduction in ringing from the cones. Personally, I don't think the ringing is audible. What I think is audible is the horn driving a spike through the ears, and when you get rid of THAT you quit blaming the cones. I don't know what else to think about this.

Btw, most of the folks at Klipsch would tell you that the biggest shortcoming of the RF7 is the midrange, which is one of the key things they tried to address with the RF-83.

The only plots I have ever seen are the weighted ones published by S&V a couple of years ago in their test report. What you see is a relatively flat, well controlled midrange. What you also see is a speaker with a horn running a little hotter than the two cones beneath it. Simply put, we see smooth response sacrificed at the alter of sensitivity. To get a better midrange out of the RF-7 you just have to bring part of the top down a little. The midrange is there, it's just being drowned out by the horn.

Most of this discussion is really about the difference between a two-way and three-way, and about the difference in midrange sound as it's being reproduced by a horn as opposed to a cone(s).

I think the RF-7 is a great speaker. In the two speakers behind the curtain test in Indy two years ago, I consistantly chose the RF-7 over the Cornwall III -- which sounded bloated, dark, and veiled by comparison -- horn loaded midrange nonwithstanding.

[DrWho]

Simply put, we see smooth response sacrificed at the alter of sensitivity.

Well sensitivity is on top of their compromise chain...just look at the khorn []

[jacksonbart]

The first real pair of speakers I brought was BAs T-830s and I could wax poetic about them all night. They have a soft spot in my heart. I heard a lot of music through them for the first time and really remind me of my college experience. Cranking music while getting drunk with good buddies, cranking music while making out with chicks, cranking music while getting laid, listening to music while studying, etc. I still enjoy their sound, always will. Who is smart guy, nice guy, young guy (should change his sheets more often) and like us all has some preconceived notions/soft spots in his heart due to his past experiences. (like those guys who like vinyl) He has posted pictures of his Chorus speakers sitting in his parents living room on their side on the TV entertainment center pushed up against the ceiling. I am sure they sound great to him. They are very nice speakers, based on my experience, a little muddy and laid back compared to the RF7s.

[Deang]

"...based on my experience, a little muddy and laid back compared to the RF7s."

I think so too.

"Well sensitivity is on top of their compromise chain...just look at the khorn."

That's different. The Klipschorn doesn't have a top that's running away from the bottom -- the sound is balanced.

[Fish]

I wanted to add to the 7 ringing conversation.I've never heard my 7's ringing,even at volumes that are equal to a loud live concert.I will concede I've heard the 7's sound very bad,not because of them but the only the pre,not the amp,source etc.I have had no less than 20 avrs and prepros hooked to em',and atleast 10 different amps.The prepros ranged from $1100 to $3000,the very best sound I got was in the $1500 to $2500 range.I won't name names so as not to offend but some were horrific,mostly the more expensive ones(no idea why).The cheapest was the Outlaw 990 which was very nice and beat several twice or more it's price for 2ch.I rate all the prepros and avrs on 2ch,HT can be done fine by almost any good unit,music is where most fail.I had one 2k retail unit hooked up and my wife ask,if that thing ruined Steely Dan how could anyone listen to it?So,I'm a firm believer that the pre part of any unit will make or break the 7's.I noticed much less difference in amps,as long as power was similar it was tough to pick one from the other on most.There was a few that I did not care for but they still had minimum impact on the 7's sound.

Like I said before,they 7's can be glorious or could have you ready to toss em' by only changing the prepro.I know I have not heard their full potential because eveytime I,ve got a better pre/amp or source they have improved everytime.As with all things they are not for everyone but when I hear someone really dog em' I know they have not heard their full potential,like em' or no.Also it's pretty humid so I came in to cool off.

[DrWho]

lol, having the speakers up high was a better compromise than having the speakers firing into the side of a couch/chair. And my owning them has everything to do with economics (they were $150). But you're right...I could never sell them as they were my first klipsch mains and all the work Colter went through driving them back from Florida...

But that doesn't mean they will never be relegated to other duties...heck, I'm trying to find a way to fund a pair of Jubilees - despite how unrealistic the goal is. [] And once I'm out of college and have money to play with, I'll probably end up building all my own speakers. The CII's will probably end up in the garage or bedroom.

[Bonzo]

The first real pair of speakers I brought was BAs T-830s and I could wax poetic about them all night. They have a soft spot in my heart. I heard a lot of music through them for the first time and really remind me of my college experience. Cranking music while getting drunk with good buddies, cranking music while making out with chicks, cranking music while getting laid, listening to music while studying, etc. I still enjoy their sound, always will. Who is smart guy, nice guy, young guy (should change his sheets more often) and like us all has some preconceived notions/soft spots in his heart due to his past experiences. (like those guys who like vinyl) He has posted pictures of his Chorus speakers sitting in his parents living room on their side on the TV entertainment center pushed up against the ceiling. I am sure they sound great to him. They are very nice speakers, based on my experience, a little muddy and laid back compared to the RF7s.

When you say they are a little muddy sounding and laid back does that mean the RF-7's are cleaner and more forward? I listen to a lot of different kids of music and will say the RF-7's are very smooth on the top end to my ears. They are certainly more mellow and not as forward as the Chorus I's I had but is that at the sacrifice of some very high end detail? I have been playing music for over 30 years so the hearing is certainly not what it used to be but, I do feel I am missing some high end detail with the RF-7's.

[Audio Flynn]

Interesting. I hadn't really thought about that

before. I guess you're talking about the two 10's and the

high crossover point? You're saying they're starting to beam before

they reach the crossover point, that off-axis response is poor, and so

the midrange unloads poorly into the room. Maybe some of us miss

out on this particular problem because we sit close to our

speakers -- is that possible?

Too analytical for me.

let us look at this totally subjective

1. RF-7 looks like a scrawny pup; the runt of the littter for floor standers

2. Copper colored woofer cone in a loudspeaker; Heaven help us!

3. Chorus II has a much more robust grill design.

My Chorus IIs went from very nice soundstage and detail to amazing due to JM Blueberry and Dean network upgrade this year!

Hope this helps.

[]

1.rf7 is LARGER than most Klipsch speakers,although not 3ft wide,a plus for most.

2.Copper woofer helped Klipsch make a flat fortune,I could take or leave it.

3.Do you play with the grills,had mine 4 years grandkids and all,NO problem,just like new.

4.If you prefer Chorus enjoy,I just can't understand why people bash

a Klipsch product,I guess to make them feel better about their

choice/find.

WOW

Just kidding Fish; do try to take the forum a bit less serious.

I

had WHELL's RF-7 in my house for a day and really liked them. As I have

asserted before; " they are all flavors of really good ice cream".

RF-5

were going in my van at the INDY KLIPSCH fest 2 years ago but the local

dealer was out of stock and could not make good on the "weekend deal"

Klipsch corp had arranged.

I have no problem with Reference series.

I hear ya,and I do take much less seriously than you'd think.I like

to play the game sometimes too though for fun.All in good fun(I hope).I

don't really care who(no pun)likes what speakers but it's great fun to

come to the defense of my beloved 7's.

Fish;

Ever listen to them with a tube amp?

Most impressive RF-7 demo song in my house was James Taylor "JT" SACD,

Blueberry and VRDs. everything Klipsch sounds better with tubes.

[Fish]

No,I 've never had a tube amp on my 7's.I'd have no objection though as long as it had a little power.The best music I've heard was growing up with tubes,tt and Cornwalls,all my older brothers.Maybe it's one of those things you remember better than it was but in my mind I compare everything to that experience.I still remember playing Supertramps Bloody Well Right on lp and just gettin' such a rush on the intro.It sounds great on cd but it don't move me the same as then.

Tubes,not for me just now but I will own a tube set up eventually.

[Jay481985]

I wanted to add to the 7 ringing conversation.I've never heard my 7's ringing,even at volumes that are equal to a loud live concert.I will concede I've heard the 7's sound very bad,not because of them but the only the pre,not the amp,source etc.I have had no less than 20 avrs and prepros hooked to em',and atleast 10 different amps.The prepros ranged from $1100 to $3000,the very best sound I got was in the $1500 to $2500 range.I won't name names so as not to offend but some were horrific,mostly the more expensive ones(no idea why).The cheapest was the Outlaw 990 which was very nice and beat several twice or more it's price for 2ch.I rate all the prepros and avrs on 2ch,HT can be done fine by almost any good unit,music is where most fail.I had one 2k retail unit hooked up and my wife ask,if that thing ruined Steely Dan how could anyone listen to it?So,I'm a firm believer that the pre part of any unit will make or break the 7's.I noticed much less difference in amps,as long as power was similar it was tough to pick one from the other on most.There was a few that I did not care for but they still had minimum impact on the 7's sound.

Like I said before,they 7's can be glorious or could have you ready to toss em' by only changing the prepro.I know I have not heard their full potential because eveytime I,ve got a better pre/amp or source they have improved everytime.As with all things they are not for everyone but when I hear someone really dog em' I know they have not heard their full potential,like em' or no.Also it's pretty humid so I came in to cool off.

When I listened to the RF-7 at a dealer, they hooked it up to an Onkyo reciever which I remember price range was 1500 or so... For some reason it felt a little bass shy even at volume. The next dealer had the denon 3806 and it sounded pretty good, well rounded and such. It might have been placement but as the room was full of electronics and other speakers it was hard to really get best placement.

as with the comments of the expensiver brand amps. I think because some brands are associated to sound a certain way they collide with what should sound good from klipsch. That is just my opinion.

[PhilMays]

I have been reading this thread for several days. I became depressed and almost sold all my klipsch and bought an AM/FM emerson clock radio to put in the middle of the room so I could curl up in a fetal position with a single candle lit while sucking my thumb....then I thought better about that and decided to keep my RF-7's!

Funny thing is...Room size and speaker placement has eveything to do whith how a speaker will sound. I've not been privy to hear some of the classic klipsch products and have often bid on Khorn...just cause...one day!

annyhooo, it really is to each his own. The best speaker I have ever heard are the B & W 802's driven by yamaha seperates. Heck I have even heard bose 301's sound dang good.

As I have posted in other threads, I have just moved and my system does not sound near as good as it once did sue to room size and placement. I am in the process of purchasing 260 watt amps to see if that will help situation by reoplacing my 150 watt 5 channel amp.

Funny thing is that my ex got a pair of KLF-20's and my take on those were they were more open and airy to me which I felt was due to being a three way speaker with a mid range. I still felt that the overall headroom and bass responce was better with the RF-7's though and they do seem smoother.

Who knows...I could have sworn I heard a difference in my speaker wire as well when I bi-wired my system with Kimber 8tc...now I'm not so sure...I think many time I hear what I want to hear and would be better off just sitting back and enjoying the music!

Phil