wire for crossover networks - time to rewire? looks like klipsch is not using lamp cord any more

[Guest " "]

Trey Cannon

I think your missing the point about this thread.

You folks went from 18 gauge wire to what you say is 14 guage.

If it doesn't matter, the original mini-lamp cord would be left in. Unless you're saying the wire your using now is less expensive. Then you would be back on track with the point of this thread.

Since from my perspective, designer wire being available from various sources on clearance, or other wise, it's cheaper for me to replace with monster HP XP, as you folks have done, than to use 12 or 14 guage lamp cord.

It's my time and trouble, not clear what the issue is.

I will be resuming my re-wire project shortly. I may wind up using monster M 1.5 cable, since I bought it on e-bay dirt cheap, and it would cost me much more to use 14 guage lamp cord.

[Trey Cannon]

What I am saying is that marketing is mixed in with the real world use of wire.

We moved from 18awg after PWK sold the co.

We moved to a large "fancy" wire, for the most part, to help with the marketing of the product.

We then moved to monstor in the late 90's and started marketing their name with ours.

Now we use a "cool guy" wire with our name on it.

You can ask anyone that has ever ask me about wire and get about the same story.

"...if you have a $350 budget for wire, use $100 on wire and the rest on your wife..."

I agree with you, if you can get "good" wire for low $ then use it.

[TommyK]

It is about marketing. No one can afford to turn away those that want to see designer wire on the inside. And there are many of them. I suspect this phenomenon exists in every industry.

It doesn't hurt anybody and if it makes some (most?) people feel better, more power to 'em. Though the science is objective, enjoyment in this hobby is subjective.

Peace,

TommyK

[Guest " "]

Ok, all re-wired, no more lamp mini-lamp cord.

Here is a photo before they slide back into their proper position.

[Al Klappenberger]

Fritz,

Not bad for used stuff, huh?

Al K.

[Guest " "]

Al,

You can take credit for an xover that I have yet to see someone say needs a mod, upgrade, re-cap, etc.

[Coytee]

I would guess that Monster got kicked out of the Klipsch bed, rather than the other way around.

Perhaps they were eating crackers?

[mark1101]

Ok, all re-wired, no more lamp mini-lamp cord.

Here is a photo before they slide back into their proper position.

You rewired them.......why didn't you recap them? Don't you want them to sound good?[][6]

[pauln]

10ft of wire per LS?? What about the voice coils? There hundreds of feet of very fine wire there... those wire charts are for the amp to speaker length only, right?

[meagain]

Bumping cuz it's a cool thread and I have many questions.... First, if one does have the monster wire on the networks and if there are a few strands clearly broken/not connected.... that's not the end of the world is it? Or is it? 2nd, if you don't see visible green through the plastic, does that rule out problems from age? Can there be an issue if they look ok? Say 13 year old wire plus god knows how long it's been sitting around before that.

[mas]

If a few individual strands are broken it doesn't matter - they are conductive by contact, not just via the ends.

It's not the green color that is the problem, it is the resistance. A simply way to check is to compare the resistance (eg measure it!) with another similar length of 'non-green' wire. Again, its not the appearance, its the resistance. And age doesn't necessarily mean anything either, Resistance isn't measured in terms of 'age' or 'greenness'. Well, not the last time I looked...

[]

[Guest " "]

"First, if one does have the monster wire on the networks and if there are a few strands clearly broken/not connected.... that's not the end of the world is it? "

No, there are 300 strands in HPXP grade monster cable. You could probally wax 200 stands and still be better off than the mini lamp cord wiring.

" you don't see visible green through the plastic, does that rule out problems from age? "

No it does not...kinda...the green is just a chemical reaction between the conductors and the insulators....the wire is not rusting...and the color is only on the surface....but the die hards will tell you that any insulator will act like a capacitor and change the sound...there are wires that have super thin low capacitance properties which minimize this effect...but you have to be a bat to be able to tell the difference.

Quite honestly, my take is if you do not have the mini-lamp cord stuff...you are good to go.

The only spooky wire stuff I really have seen is prior home repairs that involve cold solder joints....look for solder connections that are dull like the tin of a salt container spout and not shiny like a steel school thumb tack. Common problem on tweeters.

BTW, on this project, I'm pulling the autoformers and replacing with some 300 watt jobs the size of a compact disc that look like they were made of wire the size of coat hangers. Then I am installing a K-4 horn adapter which will allow 4 k-55 mid drivers ot be use. Also installing a K-45 400 watt woofer and a T-350 tweeter horn.

[ClaudeJ1]

speaker wire - for crossover networks - looks like klipsch is not using mini lamp cord any more

Here is the mini lamp cord type wire used in laScala's with AL-3 or earlier xovers.

During my one and only trip to Hope to spend a day with PWK, in 1985 (before Roy, and while both GG and JH were there), I asked PWK what he thought of monster cable, since Khorns were shipping with the fatter wires.............his reply was "it's wasted driving 30 AWG wire in a woofer voice coil."

I suspect it was more of a marketing decision rather than an engineering one, but I guess can't hurt.

[Guest " "]

" I suspect it was more of a marketing decision rather than an engineering one, but I guess can't hurt."

There's a lot more happending in voice coils and autoformers than wire size can account for, but since you brought it up, as you move up from entry level woofers in the Klipsch line like the K-33 and move to the K-43, K-45, or K-48, the voice coil wire is thicker as the driver requirements become more challenging. The same size wire is not used in all of these voice coils.

Sure it costs a few cents to use christmas light wire and a few dollars to use something better.

Also depends on your equipment. No sense in using good wire if you have paper cone speakers powered by equipment with 3% harmonic distortion, signal to noise ratio of 80, dampening factor of 5, and a dynamic range (headroom) of zero (meaning that the amp is always clipping). Under these senerio's, I agree, it won't make a difference what wire is used.

[ClaudeJ1]

" I suspect it was more of a marketing decision rather than an engineering one, but I guess can't hurt."

There's a lot more happending in voice coils and autoformers than wire size can account for, but since you brought it up, as you move up from entry level woofers in the Klipsch line like the K-33 and move to the K-43, K-45, or K-48, the voice coil wire is thicker as the driver requirements become more challenging. The same size wire is not used in all of these voice coils.

Sure it costs a few cents to use christmas light wire and a few dollars to use something better.

Also depends on your equipment. No sense in using good wire if you have paper cone speakers powered by equipment with 3% harmonic distortion, signal to noise ratio of 80, dampening factor of 5, and a dynamic range (headroom) of zero (meaning that the amp is always clipping). Under these senerio's, I agree, it won't make a difference what wire is used.

I agree that copper is not that expensive. Back when I started, at 19 years old, I had 4 Altec 511B/808-8a's, 4 421-8H's in 4 20 cubic foot bass reflex boxed with 4- EV T35's. I used to play my Crown Reel to Reel at College parties throught a MacIntosh C-26 preamp connected to Twin Dynaco ST-400's that I hand wired myself. I got paid $150 to dance with the girls and drink beer and only had to flip the Pre-recorded 10" reels af few times a night. This was all before Saturday Night Fever and the Disco movement ruined it. I always used heavy gauge wire and monster cable back to the amplifiers, but more for mechanical strength that current capacity.

At home, with a peak digital DB meter (ladder network), the most I ever saw when I used the same amps with my new Klipschorns were 10 Watt PEAKS at ear splitting levels. I don't know of any amplifiers that perform as badly as you describe nor have I heard any difference in wire gauges from 18 AWG zip thought the super fat monter cable I still have with any amplifier I have ever owned, which includes a McIntosh 240 and a Maratnz 8B.

I have nothing against fat wires, really, they are cheap enough "insurance" relative to anything else (unless you go way overboard into the golden ear retardation realm of multi kilobucks, which I doubt anyone here would do) I was just pointing out what PWK said about them as a matter of fact and historical interest.

Peace, Love, Beatles

[mas]

We're still debating wire????

[Guest " "]

'We're still debating wire????"

No debate in my mind....this re-wire was completed months ago.

[mas]

The one to which I referred was posted 22 minutes prior to my post. []

[Guest " "]

Wait til he sees my autoformer upgrade......the new six pound autoformers should be here today or tomorrow.

[ClaudeJ1]

The one to which I referred was posted 22 minutes prior to my post. []

You obviously didn't read it, and just complained about it, so just forgetabouttit. It's not important.