JetJockey Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Hi guys and gals Since the DVD age began I have been using my DVD player for both movies and audio. Now that I am moving towards a higher end system and enjoying 2 channel listening all over again my question is this. Will a good CD player do a better job of 2 channel reproduction than my HK DVD22 via Toslink and if so how much does one have to spend to achieve this? I am not interested in anything over $600-$800. Thanks for your input! BTW...my RF83' are at about 40 hours break in now and really seem to be opening up, some CD's I listen to just make me smile and go HOLY S#@T, this is amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Good question. I am starting to ask the same thing myself. It is my understanding that the laser that reads dvd's is different than the one that reads cd's. Is this correct? Is this one of the reasons that they sound better? It seems like a lot of people around here really like the Cambridge Audion 640 C. I bet some others will chime in on that one. They are within the price range you listed. Still considering one of them myself. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I just got a GREAT deal on a demo Heart CD6000 OSE LE CD player! Frank Stuppel, the US distributor, is selling a few demo units on Audiogon. He's a real nice guy to deal with, and it should be in my mitts Wednesday! $700 is right in your price range! The Heart is very similar to the more popular Ah! Njoe Tjoeb player. Daddy Dee has the Heart as well as the Ah!, and loves them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Here's Frank's website, and here is a review, and here is the Audiogon ad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I can't seem to find what sampling rate the Heart unit has. I think the Cambridge is 24/196. Does it really matter so much? For example, I guess the Cabridge may have a higher sampling rate, but the Heart has a tubed output? What would the sonic differences be? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I just got a GREAT deal on a demo Heart CD6000 OSE LE CD player! Frank Stuppel, the US distributor, is selling a few demo units on Audiogon. He's a real nice guy to deal with, and it should be in my mitts Wednesday! $700 is right in your price range! . I have the Denon DVD-3910 which is supposed to play Redbook CD's better than lower priced DVD players. I have played a few CD's on it and have to say that Sarah McLachlan sounds wonderful in 2 channel. With that exception, the rest of my listening involves Multi-channel source material. I have not done any A/B tests with the DVD-3910 and anything else regarding 2 channel sources and am curious if/or why the above unit fini mentions would be better playing CD's? At what price point does other CD players start being better than what I currently have and what are they?[:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 The Denon 3910 should be excellent on CDs, but to my way of thinking, 3910 is WAY below 6000. IOW, I can only tell by the smile on my face. I will tell you how big it gets...[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classichits Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I was using my dvd player using coaxial out. I tried my sony cdp-xe270 cd player with rca then toslink. I found cd player sounded much better in 2 speaker mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 In the ideal world, the signal being sent down the digital cable is going to be identical, regardless of the player sending the signal. In the real world, the only differences in sound are going to be the result of timing errors with the clock signal. DVD players by design have to run at a higher clock-rate to keep up with the higher sampling rate of DVD's...most clocks are running at way higher rates and need to be divided down, which further improves their accuracy. If the same clock chip is used in a dvd and cd player, the cd player will probably sound better because the clock is divided a few more times. But if your noise floor is low enough (which is most likely the case) then there should be no real difference. So all that to say - according to what they're teaching us in our digital systems labs at school, you shouldn't notice any difference between a dvd and cd player. There are a bunch of psychoacoustics and a few other implementation issues that might explain why people claim to hear a difference, but if everything is working correctly you shouldn't. Also, the magntude of difference isn't going to be the bottleneck of the system - I would look at room acoustics, speaker positioning, or even the DAC in the reciever/preamp that is converting the digital signal and feeding your amplifier. And for what it's worth, a lot of modern CD players are using the same chips being put in the DVD players because it's cheaper to manufacture one part instead of two...just something to keep in mind. We've ripped a few units apart in school and you'd be surprised by how similar (yet different) all the manufacturers build stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I have a Denon 2900 and 2200,neither sounds as good as my 640c,not to me or anyone that knows my set up.I should say this is with analog connection as I only use optical for movies/concerts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I have a Denon DVD-2200 and Cambridge Audio Azur 640C and cannot tell the difference with my setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 RC,I just recently picked up a 2200 for a deal I could not refuse.I'm pretty happy cause the 2200 and 2900 sound about the same to me on cd,sacd/dvda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Others say they can hear the difference between the 2900 and 2200. Never had the chance to compare. Compared the Azur 640C to the 2200 with the same material. Switched back and forth so much I lost track of what I was listening to. That is how I came to the conclusion there wasn't that much difference between the two. I wasn't too disappointed...the 640C is upstairs hooked to a MAC-1700 and Cornwalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Interesting The signal from any transport should be the same,and the change from one transport to the next is very minute,to say nearly noneexistant. Where lies the very audible change is the DAC and most importantly the output stage of a CD/DVD player or DAC.Here is where the digital signal is decoded and the output analog. I use a SOny SCD1 and Pioneer DVAX10 players,both SACD units.The sound quality is pretty much as good as it can get.There are better players(DAC's)these will sell for much more.The question is,I sthis last bit of transparency and resolution worth the thousants extra? You pockets and common sense will decide. Lets just say there is a very audible gain from a standard cheapo CD/DVD player to a high end one.It is however much lesser on most music than many think.The largest gains are with acoustic music recorded by skilled sound engineers using the very best recording gear. The people (reviewers)who hear very audible gains from one transport to another are hearing the placebo effects at work.It is all in the DAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 I have been using a Sony NS999ES for both CD and DVD playback for allmost 2 years now . A beast of a player ! It absolutely kicks in language that would get me banned from the forum in both aspects . "If ya know what I mean ." The only problem that I have , and at times it is a problem . Is that you can't play both at the same time . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 The Denon 3910 should be excellent on CDs, but to my way of thinking, 3910 is WAY below 6000. IOW, I can only tell by the smile on my face. I will tell you how big it gets...[] Er, uh, I meant the NUMBER 3910 was way below 6000. Lame, huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Now that I get it, it is kinda funny! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 The Denon 3910 should be excellent on CDs, but to my way of thinking, 3910 is WAY below 6000. IOW, I can only tell by the smile on my face. I will tell you how big it gets...[] Er, uh, I meant the NUMBER 3910 was way below 6000. Lame, huh?I must be lame . I understood it the first time . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 You did?? OK, I'll edit "lame" to "brilliant!" [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Interesting The signal from any transport should be the same,and the change from one transport to the next is very minute,to say nearly noneexistant. Where lies the very audible change is the DAC and most importantly the output stage of a CD/DVD player or DAC.Here is where the digital signal is decoded and the output analog. I use a SOny SCD1 and Pioneer DVAX10 players,both SACD units.The sound quality is pretty much as good as it can get.There are better players(DAC's)these will sell for much more.The question is,I sthis last bit of transparency and resolution worth the thousants extra? You pockets and common sense will decide. Lets just say there is a very audible gain from a standard cheapo CD/DVD player to a high end one.It is however much lesser on most music than many think.The largest gains are with acoustic music recorded by skilled sound engineers using the very best recording gear. The people (reviewers)who hear very audible gains from one transport to another are hearing the placebo effects at work.It is all in the DAC I agreee with TheEAR and only add one point. Isolation of the power supplies whether it is in one box or separate boxes reduces jitter and the listening fatigue that results. Whether it is low cost CD or DVD players the ones I have pulled apart usually have all funcions on one board with the power supply mounted on the board as well. Very efficient to manufacture; very prone to jitter. I find snare drum and cymbals to be the easiest for me to hear the realism fall offf due to jitter. Most compressed popular music is harder to hear the offensive digital characteristics in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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