DTLongo Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Who is ahead in this format war? I had thought from Sound and Vision magazine that HD-DVD was besting Blu-Ray quality-wise. But a young salesman at Best Buy today laid an interesting comment on me. They had a HD-DVD player marked down to $399.00. Their cheapest Blu-Ray player was $799.00. The salesman intimated that BB was trying to unload the HD-DVD players since the market is settling on Blu-Ray. What's really going on. Does anybody know? I don't want to make a Betamax mistake again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Best Buy exhibits a Blur-ray bias at many stores and sometimes they give out misinformation. The HD DVD players are marked down because the second generation players are due out next month. The HD-A1 will be replaced with the HD-A2. The A1 has analog outs that can provide Dolby TruHD lossless surround sound. The A2 will not have analog outs, but the XA2 out in January will at a cost of $1,000. The A1 may need a firmware update to 2.0 to output TruHD. If you can wait over a minute to boot, grab the A1 and run. There are first generation glitches with the players, but the software is usually excellent. Old movies like Casablanca, the Searchers and Forbidden Planet look VERY good. New movies like Mission Impossible III are three dimensional on good displays. Sound is an issue with the older movies since many are mono etc. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 If my memory serves me, BestBuy was also pushing HDDVD before Blueray was even out. BestBuy, and other B&M stores, will often not push the "best" product, but push the product which gets the best margins or results in the most profit. The sales people seem to focus on several "key" selling points when pushing BlueRay. 1) Its "TRUE" HD (1080P). 2) Larger disk space (50GB) 3) "New" Blue laser technology. Although these selling points sound like a big deal when you hear them (I admit I was pushing Blueray initially, mainly due to larger disk sizes), however, when in comes to the implimentation there are a few caviats. 1) In reality there are many HD formats, most popular are 720P and 1080i, so there isn't ONE "TRUE" HD. 2) Very few 1080P sets are currently sold, and many of them can't accept 1080P signals. Plus, many of them that do accept 1080P down convert to another format and then scale to 1080p, so you aren't really using the full 1080p. 3) 1080P and 1080i both feed the same resolution, the difference is that one is an interlaced signal and one is progressive. IF you have a decent deinterlacer, you will likely see NO difference. 4) Both HDDVD and BlueRay disks are encoded at 1080P, its just how the players OUTPUT the signal. 5) Yes, BlueRay does use a blue diode and has larger potential disk sizes. However, Sony has had troubles making the 50GB versions. I believe the only 50G movie disk is "Click", perhaps more will come on the market soon. However, "more" does NOT mean "better"!!! To give an example, about a year ago, i rented a DVD which had the WORST encoding on the planet I had EVER seen. I am not kidding or exagerating, the very first VCR tapes looked better than this DVD, the image was fuzzy, had interlacing problems, etc. My origional Dracula DVD was better than this, I had to look when the movie was made...2000!!! It was just shocking to me that something this new could be soooo poorly done. I would support the larger size IF they actually used it for the movie and NOT for all of the "extra" stuff, however the trends are to include sooooo much extra stuff that i almost always never watch it. I too am a little gunshy about either format, and I'm a tad negative about Sony. I don't think Sony quite knows how to launch a new "format". They want to control everything about it which tends to kill the format. Just look at Sony Memory Sticks, SACD, Betamax. Sony memory sticks are ONLY used in sony products...its damn annoying...when the most popular format is SD or CF for cameras. My g/f got a sony camera because its "stylish" with no reguard how she is going to actually read the memory stick and she now complains that the memory sticks are sooo much more expensive...Thats Sony.... I have a Sony SACD player, I LOVE SACD for my classical music...but i just see the format going along at 2mph barely moving. It will die...its just a matter of when or how. Frankly..I would wait to "pick" a format if you are going to buy the disks. I MAY (haven't decided yet) get HDDVD because I can rent the movies from Netflix, but at $30 a disk is a tad expensive for someone that rarely watches a movie twice. Hope this helped.... -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 You can also get BluRay through netflix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 " But a young salesman at Best Buy today laid an interesting comment on me. They had a HD-DVD player marked down to $399.00. Their cheapest Blu-Ray player was $799.00. The salesman intimated that BB was trying to unload the HD-DVD players since the market is settling on Blu-Ray." The HD-DVD (HD-A1) player started out at $500 and is being replaced by the HD-A2. That is where the difference in cost comes from, nothing more. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsoxfan Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I am by far no expert...But Sony has sold more blu-ray players in the past 3-4 days than they did in the last 2 years...I know everyone who bought the ps3 didnt buy it for the blu-ray player...but they still got...And i would say 95% of those people will use it at one time or another... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Oh fudge, Damon, I didn't know that. I set it all up for selecting DVDs or HDDVDs, and they didn't have an option for Blueray. I must have done the setup prior to the release of any BlueRay disks. Now you only made my selection harder...RATS! -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Interesting read for those who haven't: http://www.projectorcentral.com/retailing_HD-DVD_Blu-ray.htm Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 There is a lot of Sony player-hate going on right now. Much of it they have earned, but I try to remember that BluRay is more than just Sony and that I want the best technology. I'm still in the BluRay camp. Just a thought: http://www.klipschcorner.com/Articles.aspx?guid=05aa7c70-5f11-4760-90f8-c1cf27507897 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickoegle Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Interesting read for those who haven't: http://www.projectorcentral.com/retailing_HD-DVD_Blu-ray.htm Tom Very informative, Thanks [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marems Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 That was a great link! it really gets the facts right! The Toshiba HDX-A2 will have 1080p output as well as the first player with HDMI 1.3 I like the A-1 that I got a few weeks ago, I got the firmware update disk from Toshiba for free, and it gave me Dolby HD 5.1 output from the analog outputs! Superman Returns will be out on both formats next week, I'm looking forward to the HD DVD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 "The Toshiba HDX-A2 will have 1080p output" Like the BR players the 1080p output is still going through a 1080i then deinterlaced back to 1080p conversion within the player though. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo123 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Tom, thanks for posting the link comparing the two formats. I've purposely ignoring the ads for new 1080i/1080p TVs until I could get a good summary of the tradeoffs. This article really helped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maya Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 This is a very useful link, thank you. I would wait a couple of months to see how the format war is going. I dont want two more players using space in my home theater cabinets. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Interesting read for those who haven't: http://www.projectorcentral.com/retailing_HD-DVD_Blu-ray.htm Yes, very interesting...but the obvious bias towards HD-DVD makes it rather untrustworthy. I really have no opinion on the matter, but there were a lot of weak points that I would love to get into. Perhaps it's just a bad writing style (further clouded by bias)? Of course leave it to someone not extremely well versed on the issues at hand to make a comment like that [] Btw, do people really get more enjoyment out of better picture quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 "Btw, do people really get more enjoyment out of better picture quality?" If one has a HD large screen (esp. front projection) the difference is very obvious and certainly adds to the enjoyment for me. Ditto the new sound formats too. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 Interesting read for those who haven't: http://www.projectorcentral.com/retailing_HD-DVD_Blu-ray.htm Yes, very interesting...but the obvious bias towards HD-DVD makes it rather untrustworthy. I really have no opinion on the matter, but there were a lot of weak points that I would love to get into. Perhaps it's just a bad writing style (further clouded by bias)? Of course leave it to someone not extremely well versed on the issues at hand to make a comment like that [] Btw, do people really get more enjoyment out of better picture quality? Correct DrWho. The amount of hatred towards Sony (blamed for starting a format war) leads people away from being rational. People haven't "chosen a format based on analysis", they hate BluRay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 "The amount of hatred towards Sony (blamed for starting a format war) leads people away from being rational. People haven't "chosen a format based on analysis", they hate BluRay." Plenty of people have chosen a format based on analysis or other factors such as simply cost. Saying everyone that hasn't chosen BluRay is because they hate Sony is as dumb as saying the only people that have chosen BluRay are Sony fanboys. Having said that it is a shame Sony and Toshiba couldn't have come to a common format before launch. Format wars lately have more often then not ended up with no winners and only losers. (SACD/DVD-A, MD/DAT/DCC...etc...etc..) There was almost a format war with DVD too but luckily the manufacturers came to their senses in time and released on format. And as a result had the quickest growing optical format ever. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTYoung Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 People don't hate Sony as much as they distrust them. Alot of people remember the Rootkit fiasco about a year ago, that alone turns alot of people off of Blu-ray Then there is the numerous failed formats Sony has been behind, formats like Betamax, Minidisc, SACD (which I acutally like), and that god awful Memory Stick. After those failures, alot of people are unwilling to get behind Sony on this format as well. The PS3 isn't going to win this war. The vast majority of PS3 owners probably don't have HDTV's so there is no incentive to pay a premium for a Blu-ray movie when they will see no difference in quality when compared to a regular DVD. I guarantee you that there will not be 95% of PS3 owners trying out Blu-ray at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Sony's rigid marketing strategy is evident in the VHS/BETAMAX war. Instead of junking Betamax they refined it into the professional markets to get the big money. I guess win or loose doesn't count in the financial world of Sony. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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