maxg Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I mentioned about a week ago that I attended a demonstration of Nordost cables that was, shall we say, clever. Amongst the many and various piece of "science" that were thrown at us during that demonstration was that the Valhala cable, aside from being the most expensive cable they make is also the fastest. How fast? About 0.9 C - or about 270,000 kilometers per second. This was cited as a big advantage of the cable - and it got me thinking. What I thunk was this. What bloody difference does that make? How fast is a normal cable? What kind of timing differences occur if you have a Valhala on one side and a normal cable on the other? With this in mind I did a quick calculation. I assumed that a normal cable is a mere 0.1 C nominally. So: We have a one meter "pair" of interconnects. One is a Valhala and the other something we pulled out of the back of a computer speaker. The signal will travel down the Valhala in 2.7 * 10-8 seconds. The signal will travel down the normal cable in 3 * 10-7 seconds. The difference is therefore 2.6 * 10-7 seconds, or 0.26 millionths of a second. Well that dont mean crap to me - so how far would sound travel in that time? OK sound travels at, give or take, 800 miles per hour. That is 1280 kilometers per hour. Work that out and it comes to 356 meters per second - rounded up. So by my calculations that means that in 0.26 millionths of a second sound travels 0.093 millimeters per second, or, about 1 twentieth of the width of a human hair. I can guarantee that my speakers are not placed that accurately - therefore the speed of the cable is all but irrelevent for timing purposes. I know - I need to get out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I doubt that the speed difference is even that great (0.9 v0.1) Max. More like a difference of 0.1. Those electrons are speedy little guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Max: It's easy to get carried away with any aspect of this hobby, but if one knows a little more one way or the other as a result of some experience, maybe whatever it was that led to that knowledge was not a waste of time. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Rick, I chose 0.1C as an extreme case/guess - in other words it really gives them the maximum benefit of the doubt. Erik, We meet again. I am a habitual collector of useless pieces of information - some of which may contibute to something else years later. I also have a habit of trying to calculate things for myself that really carry minimal benefit to my day to day life. Like I said - I need to get out more. Example of a useless piece of info I carry. What is the only creature other than man that gets Leprosy? Hopefully someone else will know as well and I will discover there are 2 of us.... If not I will post the answer in a couple of days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhtman Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I mentioned about a week ago that I attended a demonstration of Nordost cables that was, shall we say, clever. Amongst the many and various piece of "science" that were thrown at us during that demonstration was that the Valhala cable, aside from being the most expensive cable they make is also the fastest. How fast? About 0.9 C - or about 270,000 kilometers per second. This was cited as a big advantage of the cable - and it got me thinking. What I thunk was this. What bloody difference does that make? I saw that dem at RMAF last month. The only difference a Valhalla cable makes is to your bank balance! To say the dem is "clever" is an understatement - it's a performance that rivals David Copperfield! Lars does an A/B comparison working through the Nordost range, starting off playing obscure Norwegian/Danish/Swedish folk/pop, changing the track for each cable comparison. He directs attention towards an aspect of the track (e.g. "listen to the emotion") and always lets the more expensive cable play longer, often to include a rousing section that he didn't play with the cheaper cable. When he reaches the most expensive two cables, he plays familiar tracks, in my case Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd, and again fades out the cheaper cable before the "good bit" in the song. The other Nordost proposition is wide bandwidth, by which I reckon the best value cable must be Cat8 network cable. What I can't work out is how recording studios and the whole music production process manages to get by with humble screened microphone/patch cable that costs 70 cents/foot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillH2121 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 What is the only creature other than man that gets Leprosy? A: the armadillo - in this part of the country its also know as the "other white meat" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Outside of women's fashion, audiophiles must be the best buyers for a company to deal with. I have read posts on the B&W forum where people say "I can't hear a difference but there may be a difference so I am going to do this..." Does it get any better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Max, You need to have Woodog drop by to dial in your speaker placement. THEN you'll notice the difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Man, I knew that Armadillo answer... Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Just where was woodog for my HT placment? hahahahahaha I hear he has the "touch." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I mentioned about a week ago that I attended a demonstration of Nordost cables that was, shall we say, clever. Amongst the many and various piece of "science" that were thrown at us during that demonstration was that the Valhala cable, aside from being the most expensive cable they make is also the fastest. How fast? About 0.9 C - or about 270,000 kilometers per second. This was cited as a big advantage of the cable - and it got me thinking. What I thunk was this. What bloody difference does that make? How fast is a normal cable? What kind of timing differences occur if you have a Valhala on one side and a normal cable on the other? With this in mind I did a quick calculation. I assumed that a normal cable is a mere 0.1 C nominally. So: We have a one meter "pair" of interconnects. One is a Valhala and the other something we pulled out of the back of a computer speaker. The signal will travel down the Valhala in 2.7 * 10-8 seconds. The signal will travel down the normal cable in 3 * 10-7 seconds. The difference is therefore 2.6 * 10-7 seconds, or 0.26 millionths of a second. Well that dont mean crap to me - so how far would sound travel in that time? OK sound travels at, give or take, 800 miles per hour. That is 1280 kilometers per hour. Work that out and it comes to 356 meters per second - rounded up. So by my calculations that means that in 0.26 millionths of a second sound travels 0.093 millimeters per second, or, about 1 twentieth of the width of a human hair. I can guarantee that my speakers are not placed that accurately - therefore the speed of the cable is all but irrelevent for timing purposes. I know - I need to get out more. If you think about this for a moment, it's not the speed of transmission that matters - it's whether the speed is consistent for all frequencies - that is, phase is maintained. If the low frequencies propogate at a different rate than the high frequencies (due to skin effect or whatever) then you *could* get an audible effect due to "time smearing" of the signal. Whether this would happen in a 1 or 2 meter run of any cable is a topic for another discussion... As long as the phase is maintained, it doesn't matter whether the signal propogates at 99.99% c or whether it propogates at 1 cm / sec. The only difference would be in how it took for the signal to reach your amp after you pushed the "play" button. As long as the integrity of the signal is maintained, the transmission speed doesn't enter into the picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Well I am sobbing with joy - at least 2 other people knew it was the Armadillo. My wife was convinced I was the only person on earth other than those that work directly with said creatures. Ray, Speed within the cable is irrelevent as long as it is sufficient to carry the signal without creating a bottleneck - I think - how many electrons per second do you need for stereo sound anyway?[] Assuming speed is equal across the audible spectrum then the only way it might have an effect is if you were to run different cables to each of the stereo channels - which is why I calculated on that basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmboydoug Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Max, I watched the Ken Barns video, that was very cool, tho he seemed obsessed with $$$. Thread hijack over... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 OK Max - feeding the neuroses here... At what frequency would the timing diference you've calculated result in a 90 degree phase shift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Max, I watched the Ken Barns video, that was very cool, tho he seemed obsessed with $$$. Thread hijack over... Now that is interesting - especially as I havent yet. Where did you see it? Am I in it? Etc. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmboydoug Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 You are! I would have liked to see your system. http://homepage.mac.com/savagebean/iMovieTheater11.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 Filmboy, You have quite made my day!! I just watched the whole thing for the first time. Actually it is my system at the very end that everyone is gathered around but you dont see much of it as I spent considerably less than the others and it doesn't look quite as.....dramatic - I guess. I wonder if someone will pick it up and show it on TV - PBS fare over there I would guess - BBC 2 in the UK - who knows? If they do I will be signing autographs......[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmboydoug Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Tried to have another look. It seems word has gotten out as I got that infernal exceeded bandwidth error. Max, you should start a new thread so everyone can check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted November 23, 2006 Author Share Posted November 23, 2006 I saw the bandwidth error too and so decided not to post separately until it is fixed. I might just write to Ken and see if he is happy to let me host the video on a site that has no limits. Will keep you posted on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 I get sound, but no picture...darn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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