Deang Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 This is the way I understand it based on what Roy said in another thread where I asked him the same thing. You don't need the corner, or the 48" inches on either side to 'finish' the bass horn. The horn is complete once you wrap the back and sides the way the 60th Anniversary model is done. However, you still need the 1/8 space loading in order to lift the response below 50Hz. Roy says that because of the wavelengths involved you have to be within 12" of the corner once you finish off the back. So, finish the back, toe them the way you want -- but push them back towards the side and rear wall. I was going to change mine, but have decide to leave them alone. I have mine pulled out somewhat because like all speakers it increases depth of image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 So, I guess just leave them as close to the corner as possible? You can then just toe them in some to accomodate for the room? Is the 12 inches measured from the farthest distance of the lateral edge of the speaker to the wall? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. Is the 12 inches measured from the farthest distance of the lateral edge of the speaker to the wall? Good question, I'm not sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Basically, I pretty much just need to rotate them like Indy does, so they don't point so directly to the center of the room. Clear as mud? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Being able to toe out a bit would be nice, even if it's occasionally pulling them out to accommodate a crowd/different seating arrangements or moving to another part of the house. Has anyone here heard them? I'd like to know more details on how the bass sounds. If it's good and how it compares to a sealed std. khorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 OK, well I stand somewhat corrected. What doesn't jive with me is PWK's recommendation to use 48" lengths, even in contexts where 1/8 space loading existed. It seems like a major error in judgement to leave the backs off for 60 years just to force people to put them in corners for the reason mentioned. I'm not saying it's not the truth, but what is the biggest resistance to purchasing Klipschorns other than sheer size? Seems to me its the lack of acceptable corners and related seating areas that are in the sweet spot. Why not just make them with those panels and recommend that they be placed within 12" of the corners? Is Klipsh changing the standard version Klipschorn as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share Posted December 1, 2006 Dean said, "This is the way I understand it based on what Roy said in another thread where I asked him the same thing.You don't need the corner, or the 48" inches on either side to 'finish' the bass horn. The horn is complete once you wrap the back and sides the way the 60th Anniversary model is done. However, you still need the 1/8 space loading in order to lift the response below 50Hz. Roy says that because of the wavelengths involved you have to be within 12" of the corner once you finish off the back. So, finish the back, toe them the way you want -- but push them back toward the side and rear wall." That was my experience DeanG as well, when I heard them. It was THAT dramatic. (And these were NOT squeezed in the corner, airtight, perfect in every way situation too. They were out 3-4 inches from the wall toed in perfectly too in a room actually too big almost. But the sound.... OH MY! I agree with you almost in astonishment, the walls provided the extension from that point on. Great clean, solid, pure, musical bass, like at my older house setup, the kind I dream about now. (Maybe even better.. hehehehehe) So.. That said..... Not so sure what is "in my cornflakes" But I want to see. I still think the 1" MDF or say 3/4' Baltic Birch Ply Wood Should do the trick. As far as placement, 12" or less anyone can do to toe them into your desired room no problem. Explain the 1/8 space leading in non "tech-no-babble" please? I think I know what your saying, but I did not want to be wrong. I have forgotten a lot of this over the years. Colterphoto1, Michael, laughs at me all the time. (Thank goodness he is patient with me sometimes asking... Mike.. OK, what does that do again?? LOL) Sometimes you want to know what time it is? While others explain how the clock works.... Others want to give you a history on the clock itself..... While others know the history of the concept of time itself... and its origin. Depends on your situation and what you need it for. Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 room sizes in homes have changed. While my Khorns fit perfectly in my 22x15 gallery and I can easily sit at the 11' from front wall sweet spot, many khorn lovers find their rooms less than ideal. Larger rooms in particular force the listener so close to the front wall that the seating looks horrendous from an aestetic point of view. The ability to turn the cabinets just 5-10 degrees is often enough to overcome this and not have a tremendous negative impact on the bass once the back is sealed. M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Personally, I am using Oak 3/4 inch plywood on my backs. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Free space would be suspended in mid-air. 1/2 space on the floor with no walls or ceiling (ie outside). 1/4 space is against one wall, placed on the floor. 1/8 space is corner placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I'm not saying that this won't work (anymore). I just can't believe the company waited 60 years to roll it out the door if it really is a solution without significant compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Wouldn't MDF be better as it's denser - right? OK - if this works and it sounds good, would it then be possible to build them in? For instance - take Indy's situation (if I have it right).... if on his wall, he's able to steal space behind it (garage?) and build in his TV/gear.... would it also be possible to inset the khorns as well? At least somewhat? Properly toed/positioned but not protruding/standing free in the room? My fantasy remodel would allow a similar situation........ would this be possible with this mod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 OK, well I stand somewhat corrected. What doesn't jive with me is PWK's recommendation to use 48" lengths, even in contexts where 1/8 space loading existed. It seems like a major error in judgement to leave the backs off for 60 years just to force people to put them in corners for the reason mentioned. I'm not saying it's not the truth, but what is the biggest resistance to purchasing Klipschorns other than sheer size? Seems to me its the lack of acceptable corners and related seating areas that are in the sweet spot. Why not just make them with those panels and recommend that they be placed within 12" of the corners? Is Klipsh changing the standard version Klipschorn as well? What you're saying is the way most of us have always understood it. Funny thing is, when PK built his false corners, he built them with the 48" sides -- even though he had them placed near his back and side walls. Don't know, I can only relay what Roy said. I'll dig for the link and you can read what he said for yourself, maybe I got it wrong (doubtful:). People have been finishing the backs and toeing them in for over 40 years (and Indy is hardly 'the first'). Klipsch is apparently highly critical of those who modify their products, though they appear to have no difficulty incorporating some of their ideas and concepts with the passage of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Personally, I am using Oak 3/4 inch plywood on my backs. Paul I vote for a good laminated plywood too because it just seems like a higher quality, longer lasting product. It will be for the boss (Indy) to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 OK, well I stand somewhat corrected. What doesn't jive with me is PWK's recommendation to use 48" lengths, even in contexts where 1/8 space loading existed. It seems like a major error in judgement to leave the backs off for 60 years just to force people to put them in corners for the reason mentioned. I'm not saying it's not the truth, but what is the biggest resistance to purchasing Klipschorns other than sheer size? Seems to me its the lack of acceptable corners and related seating areas that are in the sweet spot. Why not just make them with those panels and recommend that they be placed within 12" of the corners? Is Klipsh changing the standard version Klipschorn as well? What you're saying is the way most of us have always understood it. Funny thing is, when PK built his false corners, he built them with the 48" sides -- even though he had them placed near his back and side walls. Don't know, I can only relay what Roy said. I'll dig for the link and you can read what he said for yourself, maybe I got it wrong (doubtful:). People have been finishing the backs and toeing them in for over 40 years (and Indy is hardly 'the first'). Klipsch is apparently highly critical of those who modify their products, though they appear to have no difficulty incorporating some of their ideas and concepts with the passage of time. Don't bother digging, Dean. I saw it. Thanks, though. As to the second part of your post, I agree. Some of the recommendations put forth on the forum by Klipsch employees sound like absolute crap (or at least not as good as what I'm currently doing) to me, so I'm taking it all with a grain of salt and viewed in perspective of them running a speaker company, not a consulting firm. So are the backs going on the normal "production" Klipschorn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 The 48" figure for the sides was just to save work. It's what you get when you cut a piece of plywood in half. If you just want it flush with the front of your Khorn, and you don't even have to have it out that far, you can shave off 4 inches, or even a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 So are the backs going on the normal "production" Klipschorn? Trey said no, just for the 60th. Of course if popular demand demanded it . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 1, 2006 Author Share Posted December 1, 2006 I vote for a good laminated plywood too because it just seems like a higher quality, longer lasting product. It will be for the boss (Indy) to decide. Sounds good to me. I know were probably going to just paint the backs flat black anyhow. If at all? (Again no one will see them.) If it is MDF where it might be denser.. But MDF has a lot of dust.... If you did it a full 1" like the New La Scalas II plus a very nice laminate etc. etc. This project starts to seem like a huge undertaking too. (I am trying to avoid that. LOL) I wanted to say this .... In 1-2 days, a good table saw, or circular saw with thinking through this we (Meaning just about anyone on the BB with some skills,) could offer a solution that most of us could do as "Weekend warriors." And I mean it.. Anyone could do this. I just do not have the tools to do it right or that much experience to make sure it is perfect when done. I know I can't be the first person to do this. I do not claim to be. I even argued on the BB that Klipsch should re design the top so it could rotate it where you needed it. (make the top curve out some.) I am just a dumb kid from Indiana, So what the heck do I know? I know what I heard. I know what I have seen to make it work up close in Hope. I will give it a try, we will see and hear for ourselves and get back to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 The 48" figure for the sides was just to save work. It's what you get when you cut a piece of plywood in half. If you just want it flush with the front of your Khorn, and you don't even have to have it out that far, you can shave off 4 inches, or even a little more. I find that hard to believe. PWK was so concerned about aesthetics in his own house that he designed a prettier center speaker and named it after his wife! If he could've gotten the same performance by just closing the back in, I think he would've done that rather than save a single cut with a saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 These 60th anniversary models must weigh a significant amount more than standard. I know when I had false corners (with bottoms), they were a bear to move with the Khorns on them, and quite a lot just by themselves. The 60s must also must be harder to fit through a doorway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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