kialucky Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 HELP!!! I'm a new, used Khorn owner (1980 model). Hooked them up to the cheap stuff I already had and was very disappointed with the sound. Very harsh, way too much distorted bass. Just didn't sound like what I expected. I knew it wasn't the speakers, rather a reflection of my other crap, so I then bought a used MAC 4100 and that was a big improvement, but still not great. Got a Rotel 1072 CD player and that actually made it worse! Way too harsh. I know the potential with the Khorns is there, so I'm going to try to build my system around them. I don't want to do this in little steps anymore, because I think it actually costs more doing it that way. So I'm ready to open the budget a bit and go after what I think would work best. After looking through as much information as I could possibly absorb, being of limited high end audio experience, I think I want to get the new McIntosh MC 275 tube amp, the C220 tube pre-amp and the Linn Majik CD player. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on whether or not that would make me happy? I also just read something about needing to upgrade the cross-overs on old Khorns. How can you tell if that needs to be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I don't see how you could possibly go wrong with the new MC275 zowee man! Send it to me if you want me to verify that it sounds good ; ) If I remember properly the current production crossovers have a steeper slope than the 1980 models which could be AA crossovers. You can call and verify this with tech support or someone will correct me here : ) Sounds like fun enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Have you heard Khorns before that sounded good to you? In my experience Khorns sound good with all the amps I've heard them with including such things as the audiophile pariah Crown DC-300s. But I like Khorns. I'm thinking that better amps might make your Khorns sound better but I've never heard any amp make a speaker I thought was bad sound good. In other words are the Khorns really the speakers for you? Not everyone likes them you know. If you have heard Khorns you like it's one thing but if you haven't you're on dangerous ground thinking you can throw money at them and get a sound you like. You're as likely to go backward as forward. Better in general to find a speaker you like than to try to find amps that compensate for a speaker you don't like. My opinions ya understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaspr Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 Nice post Tom. Some good , honest advice there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I don't want this to sound like I'm disrespecting McIntosh. You might also check into trying to listen to an OTL amp. I had some Khorns hooked up to a Transcendent SE-OTL amp and found the sound GLORIOUS. I kept the SE-OTL amps over the Wright 2A3 amps I had. The only thing I ended up not liking about the SE-OTL amps was for me, they were TOO frustrating since they only had 4 wpc (I had 2 mono's bridged). The sound was probably the best "most real" I'd ever heard and I craved more. Unfortunately, at 4 wpc, they couln't provide me what I needed and I sold them too. I had with them, some McIntosh MC-30's and also a McIntosh MC-2102. I'd STILL say the SE-OTL's sounded the best "within their range". Since I really listen to stuff more loud, the OTL's were out. I might look into Transcendent's larger OTL amp later in the year for fun. If I like it enough, I'll probably keep it over the MC-2102 (which I think is probably the most beautiful amp in the world). All this stuff was hooked up to a garden variety Sony CDP and a Peach (tubed) preamp. Although I don't think you'll go wrong AT ALL with McIntosh, there might be some other alternatives that will compete on the sound front, and be (perhaps) a less expensive alternative. You anywhere near Knoxville? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 HELP!!! I'm a new, used Khorn owner (1980 model). Hooked them up to the cheap stuff I already had and was very disappointed with the sound. Very harsh, way too much distorted bass. Just didn't sound like what I expected. I knew it wasn't the speakers, rather a reflection of my other crap, so I then bought a used MAC 4100 and that was a big improvement, but still not great. Got a Rotel 1072 CD player and that actually made it worse! Way too harsh. I know the potential with the Khorns is there, so I'm going to try to build my system around them. I don't want to do this in little steps anymore, because I think it actually costs more doing it that way. So I'm ready to open the budget a bit and go after what I think would work best. After looking through as much information as I could possibly absorb, being of limited high end audio experience, I think I want to get the new McIntosh MC 275 tube amp, the C220 tube pre-amp and the Linn Majik CD player. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on whether or not that would make me happy? I also just read something about needing to upgrade the cross-overs on old Khorns. How can you tell if that needs to be done? First I question "distorted bass." Maybe there is something wrong that needs attention. Regarding CD's sounding harsh it could be the CD's themselves, many are not made that well. I guess I would start with a known good source of a recording, then troubleshoot from there. You do have the Khorns in perfect corners, right? Connections are one of the first places to check. Just ballpark opinion here based on the info from your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I wonder if the previous owner could have down something to the khorns? Did you listen before you bought them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackpod Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 There has been some very good advise given the limited amount of detail you provided. What did you have before? can you elaborate on what you mean by "harsh?" I have never heard the MC275 re-issue, but have read here and there they sound nothing like the original, not to say that is good or bad. That is a lot of cash to fork out on unknown sound. Do you have a nearby McIntosh dealer you can go listen to several different Mac amps (altho I doubt they will have a pair of Khorns) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I wonder if your music room is appropriate for the Klipschorns...is it a big or small room, are the Khorns in the corners of the short wall or long wall, do you have a live (reflective) room or a dead (damped) room? Your room could very well be the reason why you're not totally satisfied with their sound, and not the power used or your source components. The reason why I question your room is because I was using my dad's original '79 Cornwalls in a tiny 12 x 13.5 room, and with SS power from Carver and McIntosh, along with tube power from JoLida, Dared, an old Magnavox console amp, and my current BEZ 300B SET amps, the Cornwalls still sounded harsh at extreme volumes no matter what amplification I used (maybe upgrading the original networks would've improved the sound, but I never tried that). My brother has since modded the Cornwalls to a 2-way design with Altec horns/drivers, active crossovers, and biamplification (Crown and Technics) in a much larger room, and the Cornwalls sound superior without any harshness whatsoever. There are so many variables as to why your Klipschorns don't sound as good as they should...a valve-powered McIntosh could very well do the trick (I only used 3 SS models), along with proper room placement/treatment if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 "My brother has since modded the Cornwalls to a 2-way design with Altec horns/drivers, active crossovers, and biamplification (Crown and Technics) in a much larger room, and the Cornwalls sound superior without any harshness" No wonder, they're no longer Cornwalls and barely Klipsch speakers at all, one could as soon call them Altec VOTS with Klipsch woofers. One can hardly expect to get an idea of how good Khorns may sound in one room from how Altec speakers sound in another, it's apples and oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 HELP!!! I'm a new, used Khorn owner (1980 model). Hooked them up to the cheap stuff I already had and was very disappointed with the sound. Very harsh, way too much distorted bass. Just didn't sound like what I expected. I knew it wasn't the speakers, rather a reflection of my other crap, so I then bought a used MAC 4100 and that was a big improvement, but still not great. Got a Rotel 1072 CD player and that actually made it worse! Way too harsh. I know the potential with the Khorns is there, so I'm going to try to build my system around them. I don't want to do this in little steps anymore, because I think it actually costs more doing it that way. So I'm ready to open the budget a bit and go after what I think would work best. After looking through as much information as I could possibly absorb, being of limited high end audio experience, I think I want to get the new McIntosh MC 275 tube amp, the C220 tube pre-amp and the Linn Majik CD player. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on whether or not that would make me happy? I also just read something about needing to upgrade the cross-overs on old Khorns. How can you tell if that needs to be done? Welcome to the Klipsch Forum. While the advice so far has been fine, we really need a lot more info from you. As Tom asked, have you heard Klipschorns before and liked them? If so, the biggest change from then to now is probably your listening room. An amp isn't going to make you hate or love a Klipschorn, nor is a crossover. Were you listening to harshly-recorded CDs? Maybe the Klipschorns were just revealing them for the trash they were? It'd be useful too if you told us what your room dimensions are and whether you've heard other speakers in there that sounded good. The puzzler to me is the "way too much distorted bass" part of your description. Maybe the woofers are ruined? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 If you're gonna go all out, then you might consider investing in the upgrade kit from Klipsch - especially if your speakers are old. I think it comes with new crossover and new driver for the squaker? To be honest, I don't really know, but you can give Klipsch a call. If you're going to be building such an extensive system around the speakers, then I think it makes sense to start by getting the speakers back in shape first. Btw, do you have the khorns sealed into the corners? For what it's worth, I should be honest and mention that I'm not a huge fan of khorns - an engineering masterpiece and I'm a huge fan of PWK, but their sound just isn't for me and the music I enjoy. However, they're still far far from awful sounding - and should sound great with pretty much any amplification (since the amp doesn't have to break any kind of sweat). Take away a few of the speakers I like more and I could be happy with khorns - I would just need to slightly alter my listening habits. Anyways, it sounds like something out of the ordinary is at play with the speakers - as with many of the other comments, I would avoid starting with electronics - though no harm if you're going to go the same route anyway. Welcome to the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kialucky Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Wow, I sure appreciate everyone's great advice. I didn't expect so much help. My listening room is 20 ft. by 24 ft. with a 9.5 ceiling. There are corners where the speakers are, but both speakers have a large glass window with wood shutters as one of the corners, so I can't really seal them. Maybe I sounded too critical about my Khorn sound, as it is pretty good, just not quite as good as what I have heard from other Khorn systems I've listen to before. The bass probably isn't distorted, so much as it sometimes seems to take over the music and become the loudest and most obvious aspect of the sound. I prefer the bass to be more supportive and harmonious and let the vocals and sparkling highs dominate...without sounding harsh. I don't talk the talk yet, so I'm probably still misrepresenting things. I'm pretty sure I'm going with the McIntosh stuff. I'm sure there are some emotional issues involved with my decision. Basically, now that I can afford them, I really want to get them. I'm mostly wondering if there are other Mac/Khorn users that can either support my choices or let me know why I should consider different Macs. Also, I'm interested in other's experiences with their CD players. It seems like the Khorns are so revealing, it is very important to find the right CD player. I will definitely call Klipsh and see about their upgrade kit for the Klipschorns! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I'm not a huge fan of the Mac sound (man, why would you take any advice from me? lol), but they are great pieces of gear. Once you cross a certain threshold you're really picking a flavor moreso than "improving" the sound in any significant way. Each flavor is just a different result of each engineer attemping to introduce the "least compromises". At least that's my less fun non artistic viewpoint [] But I'm sure most everyone will agree that the system synergy is more important than the sum of all the parts. Great music with great amps with great speakers can sound like crap because they don't compliment each other. There are a crap load of McIntosh nuts on the forum that use khorns for their playback, so I think it safe to say there is some kind of synergy there. I would try to hunt them down and see how many of them share similar tastes in music. I find that the majority of the people that listen to the same music as myself often tend to like the same combinations of gear... Since I probably don't fall into that category, allow me to mention that the Mac gear will have a low noise floor and plenty of power when called upon. I personally favor a sound more like the Aragon amps (sleek modern clean SS designs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 KHORNS powered by McINTOSH = A Fine Stereo................can't imagine that not sounding great................Don't waste your time with them, sell them to me......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 and then I popped in.. I bought both the McIntosh MC275 and C2200 to go with my 83 KHorns..and I was vastly disappointed! I preferred the SET 300B amps over the 275..so I sold it. Knowing the 2200 was a 5K piece of gear, I tried to keep it, listened intensely, but it just sounded too polite, no highs! I finally sold that off too, for quite a loss. I preferred my Adcom GFP565 over the expensive Mac! Go figure! Obviously, this is just my opinion..what I heard. But some people on the forum warned me, that maybe I wouldn't like the sound..but my mind was made up and I spent the cash anyway. Hopefully, you can hear the equipment before you purchase it..make sure you like it! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Steve, you really didn't like the Khorn/Mac set-up? Do you feel it was the equipment, or maybe a speaker/ room problem, or you just feel it was a power source problem? You liked the SET over the Mac? That is a very interesting statement...............not looking to spark a debate, just curious for my own reasons..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackpod Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Dr. Who So why don't you tell us what you think is a good amp So why don't you tell us what you think are good speakers So why don't you tell us what is your type of music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Jack, it's no secret that Who doesn't care for Khorns and Mac gear, and as far as music goes, I think he prefers electonica type stuff (he's young... what can I say :-) I believe his current speakers are Chorus II's, and I'm not real sure what he's driving them with. Having said that, I just recently came across a nice MC2205 and C28 that I am going to sell (the C28 is already on eBay). I ran these with my Heresy's in the garage and was not all that impressed (actually prefer the HK730), but maybe I didn't give them a fair shake. I also didn't try hooking them up to my La Scala's in the main room, but that is mostly due to the weight of the MC2205 and I can't lug it around by myself. If given the opportunity I sure would like to hear some tube Mac gear. I'd be real curious to see how they compare to my VRD's. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackpod Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Mike, Maybe I have had McIntosh for too many years. I was impressed with them at a young age and come to think of it never really tried anything else (first impressions you know) I have never had anything but McIntosh (several different models) on my Khorns, Belles or Heresy's. I had McIntosh before I had Klipsch. Come to think of it for two channel listening I have had Mac since 1969 when I bought my MC240. I do have Anthem (Sonic Frontiers) amps on my Home Theater System but have never hooked my Khorns to them. I too would like to hear a comaprison of other tube amps with my MC240 Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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