Coytee Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I posted this on AK last night when this place went down. As most know, as the story unfolds, I'm picking up some local Heresy's to deliver to Colter in Indy. He is then, picking up Jay's Heresy's to hand to me when I'm with him, for me to bring back here for a friend. I wanted to play with the Heresy's last night and I put them atop the Jubilees. I'd asked Roy earlier about it and he said to cross at 80. I simpy put the H's on top of the Jubes, connected the Heresy's to my 2102 and didn't touch the bass bins. I ended up crossing at 80 to begin with allowing what ever 'tweeks" Roy has for the Jube bass bin to stay, while sending an unaltered signal to the Heresy's (man, I am really starting to like this Ev DX-38) The sound was utterly fantastic. I think the bass heads here would have really gotten off on it, why? Because there was seemingly twice the bass in the room, but it was CLEAN and SOLID. I think a more accurate story about what was going on, wasn't there was twice as much bass, as opposed to 1/2 as much HF material going on!! That really helped illustrate to me the power of that K402. I also ended up playing around more with the EV, sending the FULL signal to the Heresy and then tried to fill in with the Jubes. During this process, I really got a better understanding for how high the jubes go. They really kind of clashed with the Heresy in that (how to say this without confusing myself), the upper reaches of the low end, overpowered the lower end (mids?) of the Heresy's. By the time I toned the Jubes down, the SOLID backup also drained away. I REALLY liked it a WHOLE lot more simply crossing over at 80 hz just as Roy speculated. The sound blended in pretty well (there WAS a strong bass element in the room, much stronger than with the "un-modified" jubilees []) I put on the Big Phat Band, first cut where there is a lot of drum action. It was lovely. At one point, I had the meters on my 2102 pegging at 100 wpc (no idea what the bass bins were doing). and the walls/floor/my gut were simply being wrenched by the POUNDING that was assulting me. There is NO WAY I would have even tried to be in the NEXT room, had I had the K402 on top. This really helps to quantify it in real terms, to this dumb ole boy, some of the differences between the two, and just how capable the 402 is. I also noticed just how narrow the dispersion is on the Heresy. I really had to be in line of fire to get the full bodied sound. If I went off axis, the higher freq's would greatly subdue. While I had the 402 up, to my left however, I was STILL able to hear a lot of that HF sound that the Heresy lost. My wife got home and spent 5 minutes pouting that I had a mess in the room (402's laying on floor). I told her that I was taking them with me in 3 days and to (basically) get over it lol. Seems she was more playing the martyr than really angry as she ended up laughing at me in sort of a "gotcha" way. (women [:#]) I'm going to leave it there for next day or so and just play with it. The Heresy's are in great condition. The guy Colter bought them from, couldn't have been a nicer guy. Had a very nice wife too. Said these got used about 4 times per year and that was it. Maybe I need to hold them as hostage for ransom?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 See how much better the Jubilee's look with a Hersey on top............................Boy, is that a small room, just realized that looking at that picture, the second one......................How far apart are those speakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 I WAS going to simply leave it at 1 Heresy & 1 402, but curiosity got the better of me. I don't know how to word this, but with the 402's on top, the system sounds HUGE and dangerous (afraid to pump 100 wpc into 402 with commensurate wattage to bass bins) With the Heresy's on top, the system sounds "smaller" HOWEVER, it seems to simply be WICKEDLY strong in the bass department. Much more "strong" than with the 100% Jubilee setup. I must admit, given my short term experiement last night, I REALLY liked the Heresy on top. I think, what I really probably liked, was the extra presence of STRONG bass, yet not muddy. It really sounded like it had authority (which trust me, it did) Too bad wife is off today... kind of precludes me from going home and stepping on the throttle a little more & try different things. Oh, Mr. Colter... trust me...I've not run anything more than 4 wpc into your Heresy's... anything I've said above is simply not true! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I wonder why the BASS response is so strong, because I think the Heresy's lack good bass response..................of course you are pumping McIntosh watts to them...............................EH...................You lucky bass turd.......................Put on some Delbert !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 I think Delbert would be an excellent idea for tonight!! Glad I thought of it! [:$] [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Richard, Interesting post...and nice heresys for Colter. My question is that you state you crossed at 80Hz. That basically turns off the Jubilee bin except for leaving it at subwoofer duty. How could you have MORE bass than when you run it normally with the big horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 Richard, Interesting post...and nice heresys for Colter. My question is that you state you crossed at 80Hz. That basically turns off the Jubilee bin except for leaving it at subwoofer duty. How could you have MORE bass than when you run it normally with the big horn? Not sure how to word this... I think there was 'more' bass as a matter of perspective. 1st: I don't EVER run the full Jubilee setup with 100 wpc pegging on my 2102. If I DID do that, I don't know how much the bass bin would be putting out 2nd: Since last night, I DID run (how ever many watts in the bass bin it would be if I ran the HF section at 100 watts) full out, I had "that amount" of bass in the room that I'd otherwise not ever have 3rd: Since the Heresy is less efficient, less coverage less of less than the K402, I really think I simply had "less high frequencies" as contrasted with "more bass" however, the net effect of the mating was, a predominance of POUNDING going on, that otherwise, would not be noticed because if I had the throttle at the same volume with the 402's on top, it would have been loud/pounding yes, but also deafening. It really was an interesting experiment. It made me contemplate buying a pair of Heresy's myself, just so I can doodle around with this again, or perhaps, for someone else...or perhaps... for a time when I might want to accentuate the bass but keep a clean sound on top. I have tried I suppose, to create this simiar reality with the Jubilees themselves (playing with the Dx38 and changing the attenuation between the two halves). I've never really liked the balance I got when I did that though as the bass seemed to become too much (perhaps because it is crossed at 500 hz?) With it crossed at 80, it really just acted more like a subwoofer I suppose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 It would be even more interesting if you could find some of those 2 way Heresy's to try that with. A couple of months ago didn't someone on here post those 2 way heresy's that were on e-bay...................3 or 4 sets of them................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I get you now....just another way to use the those bins. So is there anything left to Colter's heresys? I'd say they stood up to some serious testing .....knowing you. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Wow I can't believe they are still in that room : ) How is the basement coming along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 9, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 9, 2007 Darn Coytee, it looks like a girl decorated that room![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhtman Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Sounds like great fun RIchard. I'm pretty sure you could re-create the sound of your Heresy/Jub set up on your Jubs by playing with the filters in the Dx38 - have a rising bass response from about 250Hz down and rolling off a few dB from somewhere between 1-3kHz. I bet Roy could give you the precise numbers! Also interesting to hear about the difference in HF off axis when you're using the Heresys up top (although they look wrong now to my eyes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 I can see it now.... Jub bass bin.... Hersey guts in a K-horn style sealed top section.... BTW, we inadvertantly circled back to K-horn in a 4-way as used in the Patrician IV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 Darn Coytee, it looks like a girl decorated that room![] Dang! I think I just got called a sissie!! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Darn Coytee, it looks like a girl decorated that room![] Dang! I think I just got called a sissie!! [] Just remember it is not the color of the room but the size of the horn that matters ; > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Richard, Interesting post...and nice heresys for Colter. My question is that you state you crossed at 80Hz. That basically turns off the Jubilee bin except for leaving it at subwoofer duty. How could you have MORE bass than when you run it normally with the big horn? Not sure how to word this... I think there was 'more' bass as a matter of perspective. 1st: I don't EVER run the full Jubilee setup with 100 wpc pegging on my 2102. If I DID do that, I don't know how much the bass bin would be putting out 2nd: Since last night, I DID run (how ever many watts in the bass bin it would be if I ran the HF section at 100 watts) full out, I had "that amount" of bass in the room that I'd otherwise not ever have 3rd: Since the Heresy is less efficient, less coverage less of less than the K402, I really think I simply had "less high frequencies" as contrasted with "more bass" however, the net effect of the mating was, a predominance of POUNDING going on, that otherwise, would not be noticed because if I had the throttle at the same volume with the 402's on top, it would have been loud/pounding yes, but also deafening. It really was an interesting experiment. It made me contemplate buying a pair of Heresy's myself, just so I can doodle around with this again, or perhaps, for someone else...or perhaps... for a time when I might want to accentuate the bass but keep a clean sound on top. I have tried I suppose, to create this simiar reality with the Jubilees themselves (playing with the Dx38 and changing the attenuation between the two halves). I've never really liked the balance I got when I did that though as the bass seemed to become too much (perhaps because it is crossed at 500 hz?) With it crossed at 80, it really just acted more like a subwoofer I suppose? Any chance you have the bass bin bumped up a few dB hotter than the Heresy? It's not uncommon for the bass levels to get knocked up higher than flat, especially when tuning by ear. When you put the 402's back up, try messing around with this setting on the master EQ circled in the attached picture. If in fact your bass bin was set a bit hot, then this filter would be replicating this with the 402's on top. If you feel like it ruins the lower mids, then you can play around with lowering the frequency / gain. You might even experiment with as much as 9dB of gain (if you look at the frequency response plots, this should give you very flat extension to below 40Hz). Another filter you might consider would be a 12dB High-Pass around 30Hz with a Q of 2. You can see it in the bypassed filter in the picture. It pretty much does the same thing as the shelf EQ, but will roll off the response - reducing cone excursion in a region that you don't really have much output anyway. I think you have RACE, so you can poke around with the filters to see the effects they might have. Just keep in mind that as you boost the low-end, you reduce the maxSPL of the system. I'm not sure what the peak output of the Jubilee is, but let's say it's 130dB. Then with 9dB of boost, your new peak output is 121dB...100W into the Heresy is gonna be over 110dB... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 9, 2007 Author Share Posted January 9, 2007 On my DX, I saved my "Roy Setting" to a new location & played with new location. Meaning, I didn't run it any hotter/colder than "stock" when I FIRST did it, crossing over at 80 hz. Later, when I sent FULL signal to the Heresy's, I might have done something like you say above without knowing what I was doing (surprise!??) When knocked back down to stock setting, crossed at 80... I think even YOU would have liked the 'slam' in the room! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 When you had them cranked up, the Hersey didn't run out of volume? It could play as loud as the Jubilee's? I have a hard time believing that, I don't think they could keep up with them, or am I wrong about that??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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