B&W 802D's

[BS Button]

A good buddy of mine is part owner in a "high end" home theatre store that carries B&W. Today he opened up the store for me to listen for a while to the 802's. He was using Rotel equipment all the way around, to drive.

Sounded very forward, in your face, which surprised me

Non-colored bass response, probably accurate, though

Non fatiguing

Very desirous of massive wattage

Cranked 'em one time and everything fell apart...amps I'm thinking

Overall a very nice listening experience and very well built, ported through the bottom on short stands

Impressed with the imaging, but I was in a very good room

but,

I Couldn't wait to get back to the Peach and my Cornwalls. Just can't get over the exceptional value offered by Klipsch..and Juicy Music.

BS

[BillH2121]

I listened to 802ds for 10-12 minutes powered by Mac MC2102 and playing Mac MCD201 - I was intrigued by the smooth response and neutral sound. But, when I got home I thought my RF7s sounded pretty close when using a sub. I'm afraid the 802s would not only involve the additional expense of the speakers by also another 2102 to monoblock so as to provide the power these speakers probably need to excel.

[rcarlton]

Listened to B&W 800D and 803S speakers through a McIntosh MCD201 and McIntosh C-46 and MC-402 a couple of weeks ago. The MCD201 had trouble playing CD-R's. It was at a dealer show room. Hate to say it, but the way it was set up...my Cambridge Audio Azur 640C and Denon DVD-2200 beat it hands down. I suspect room acoustics played a huge role[]...the back of the room was made of glass[:|]. The B & W speakers had a narrow sound stage, no life, sterile sounding[:'(]. They were toed in, about 15-18 feet apart, 2-3 feet from the front wall. I used a CD I was very familiar with that has several aha! moments...nothing, no aha! moments. Was glad to get home and listen to the CD on my system...[]

[boomac]

Ive listened to B&W 803s and 804s powered by both Balanced Audio Technology and Bryston separates. If I had the spare money Id own a pair of either in a NY minute. The B&W speakers are smooth, well defined and very real. The sound stage was excellent in my experience. I listened to both CDs, (BAT CD player) and LPs (Rega P3). As much as the B&W speakers impressed me I would still keep my Cornwalls and they would continue to provide the majority of my listening pleasure.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[tigerwoodKhorns]

A good buddy of mine is part owner in a "high end" home theatre store that carries B&W. Today he opened up the store for me to listen for a while to the 802's. He was using Rotel equipment all the way around, to drive.

Sounded very forward, in your face, which surprised me

Non-colored bass response, probably accurate, though

Non fatiguing

Very desirous of massive wattage

Cranked 'em one time and everything fell apart...amps I'm thinking

Overall a very nice listening experience and very well built, ported through the bottom on short stands

Impressed with the imaging, but I was in a very good room

but,

I Couldn't wait to get back to the Peach and my Cornwalls. Just can't get over the exceptional value offered by Klipsch..and Juicy Music.

BS

FWIW, I heard a pair of B&W 802D's at a dealer and they sounded aweful. They were not broken in yet. I'm sure that the D series sounds better than those. The 805S (small bookshelf) sounded awesome in a different room. I kept looking for a subwoofer. They were great little speakers. The 805's were driven by Arcam FMJ and the 802's by Levinson (or maybe Bryston). Rotel will not really do 800 series justice.

My N801's are just plain outstanding, but to get them there I had to replace quite a bit of equipment. A friend of mine just picked up an older pair of matrix 801's. He has wanted these for 20 years. I can't wait to hear them.

I also have a pair of DM3000's (small towers) in my office and they are also excellent speakers. Funny story, I saw the DM3000's for sale locally and I had never heard of B&W's, except for people bashing them here. I figured they must be something special if so many people made a point of saying that they did not live up to their image. I went to hear them, expecting them to be decent, but not much more. I was blown away. The midrange vocals were in such a different league than what I was used to (with relatively cheap Rotel equipment). I bought them and then started reading about B&W's and learned what the 800 series was. The next weekend I bought the N801's. It seems that B&W bashing is what lead to my conversion.

Anyway, sorry guys but ain't no turnin' back now. But I do agree that Klipsch are a huge value. It reminds me of the difference between a hot rodded Vette and a Ferrarri. Both offer a lot of performance, more than any average person can imagine.

[rcarlton]

I was so put off by my listening experience with the B&W's that they would not be under consideration for purchase. They have an organic look that creeps me out, plus placement can be fussy. Honestly, in the room the dealer had them set up in, they sounded no better than my old Advent 5002's.

I was hoping the dealer had a McIntosh MC275 MKV to audition. No MC275. Caters to the home theater crowd...had well set up home theater rooms...acoustic treatments etc. Lot's of multi channel amps.

BTW I have always thought of Klipsch as being more like a Porsche...family owned, sticking with a tried and true design (911), and the underdog in the speaker race.

[DaleR]

Tigerwood,

"Rotel will not really do 800 series justice?" At least some folks think so. I've been to two audio/HT shops recently, and both had Rotel electronics mated to B&W 800-series speakers. Even Rotel's magazine ads feature B&W speakers. Maybe Rotel is making an effort to place themselves in the "high end" in the minds of consumers. Granted, I thought the Mac gear I listened to made the 800Ds sound better, but I think most would agree that Mac gear is better than Rotel. The B&Ws sounded amazing, although they were a bit too "refined" for my taste. I like the "live" sound I get from my Klipsch.

My wife thought the 800Ds were very attractive; however, I could put together an entire system for the price of one pair!

Dale

[Speedball]

The best I've heard were B&W 803's with McIntosh 501 monoblocks and the matching 2200 tube preamp......wow, but on the other hand I bet 501's would make anything sound spectacular and the price between Klipsch and B&W are far apart. I agree that for the money Klipsch is an excellent "bang for the buck" speaker and I'm still happy with my RF-7's.

[seti]

I have really enjoyed every pair of B&Ws I have heard. Audio Deminsions in West Little Rock has a pair of the big B&Ws run by 500WPC McIntosh and they sounded absolutly sublime. However, the cost was over 20,000 for just the speakers! I felt the Jubilees still bested these B&Ws from what I remember and would love an AB comparison of the two : ). I mentioned this to the guy doing the demo who had actuallyheard the Jubilees at some point and said they could absolutley compete against the B&Ws. If I had $20,000 to spend on speakers I would go custom veneered Jubilees or even new Klipschorns. The B&Ws sound wonderful and I'll never turn down an opportunity to hear them but I think money would be better spent on some of them big klipsh horns : )

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I have really enjoyed every pair of B&Ws I have heard. Audio Deminsions in West Little Rock has a pair of the big B&Ws run by 500WPC McIntosh and they sounded absolutly sublime. However, the cost was over 20,000 for just the speakers! I felt the Jubilees still bested these B&Ws from what I remember and would love an AB comparison of the two : ). I mentioned this to the guy doing the demo who had actuallyheard the Jubilees at some point and said they could absolutley compete against the B&Ws. If I had $20,000 to spend on speakers I would go custom veneered Jubilees or even new Klipschorns. The B&Ws sound wonderful and I'll never turn down an opportunity to hear them but I think money would be better spent on some of them big klipsh horns : )

I went the Audiogon route. The N801's were $11,000 three years ago and the 801D's are now $16,000. Kind of hard to chase. My wife woudl kill me if I spent that much on speakers. As far as enjoyment, I don't know that I enjoy them anymore than my old K Horns, and they did cost quite a bit more, but they sure are nice.

[Ki Choi]

One time or another, I have had most of the modern speakers in my music room - from bigger than Subaru SoundLab A1s to as small as your lunch box Rogers L3/5as... B&W 801 S3s, N802s, and N805s made their tryout as well. Currently I have a pair of N800s in the room sharing with Trachorned Khorns and Quad ESL-63USA+Gradient SW-63s. I had compared N800Ds and N800s at the local dealership with the manager in the same room for many days in deciding which way to go. The manager was 10 years younger than me and told me the D model was better but to be honest, I could not hear much sonic differences - but then again I can't hear the differences from SACD and a good Red Book CD of same recording... It must be my age...

To make the long story short, I play about 55% of the time - the Quad combo, 35% the Khorns, and remainder is for the B&W. Well, I play the B&W to heat the room mostly...

Ki

in colder than usual Seattle

[seti]

One time or another, I have had most of the modern speakers in my music room - from bigger than Subaru SoundLab A1s to as small as your lunch box Rogers L3/5as... B&W 801 S3s, N802s, and N805s made their tryout as well.  Currently I have a pair of N800s in the room sharing with Trachorned Khorns and Quad ESL-63USA+Gradient SW-63s.  I had compared N800Ds and N800s at the local dealership with the manager in the same room for many days in deciding which way to go.  The manager was 10 years younger than me and told me the D model was better but to be honest, I could not hear much sonic differences - but then again I can't hear the differences from SACD and a good Red Book CD of same recording...  It must be my age... 

To make the long story short, I play about 55% of the time - the Quad combo, 35% the Khorns, and remainder is for the B&W.  Well, I play the B&W to heat the room mostly...

Ki

in colder than usual Seattle

I could be happy with any of the three speakers you have in that room.... Very nice. 

The Kaisers has Nautilus 804s and I get to hear them on a regular basis so the B&W has a good rep in my book.

[kaiser SET say]

I can guarantee the breakdown on the 802D's was a direct reflection of the Rotel amps! My 804's (Non-Daimond series) will absolutely suck every watt out of my BAT VK-200 and it's not a weak amp by any means but to truly run 802D's one would need bi-amp configurations (my prefered array would be MAC, BAT or something of this grade at 500W per side on the bottom end and then some sweet once again MAC or BAT tubes on top along the 100WPC or above to truly drive 802D's) of course as already mentioned it's for those of LARGE wallets and not faint of heart[]

I could be very happy with a pair of Jubs driven by a pair of BAT VK-150SE's and save myself a whole lot of money compared to the 802 layout I suggested above[] (were still talking a 25 grand retail amp speaker system here[])

Ki, I bet an all tube 802 system would bring the ambient temperature of any room up[A]

[seti]

I wonder what the temp swing is : )

[Ki Choi]

It's just one man's opinion but... I have to say current B&Ws and other dynamic speakers are meant to be driven by SS amps with heafty power reserves. The Rotel amp should have done a respectable job driving the 802Ds...there must have been other issues during the demo. Believe it or not, in summer times, I use an old Yamaha MX-1 SS amp (240W/ch) on N800s with very good results.

I tried biamping N800s with two Krell FPB 700Cx stereo amps. There weren't enough sonic gains to put up with the discomfort... One of the main problems is lack of bass in my room. These speakers may peform with flat frequency responses in the factory labs but in the real world, they must be placed perfectly in an optimally porposioned and sized room to sing properly. As Ron had observed, they need to be placed near the room boundaries to give any kind of bass. The N800s needs to be max. 2ft away from the front wall to get satisfactory bass in my case. I got rid of one of the Krell amps and still have one (for sale on Audiogon ;-)) The bottom line is that B&Ws and other dynamic speakers are not as forgiving in amps it needs and the room it likes to live.

Speaking of heat, I also tried a pair of 200W Sonic Frontiers Power 3s, monoblock HK Citation IIs (120W/ch), and the Pass X600s. I can heat the entire upstairs of my house with the Pass. In preparation of upcoming spring, I am selling the Pass amps also ;-) !

[kaiser SET say]

Too funny Ki, we once took one of the Pass Class A cube amps (Maybe it was a 250 but not 4 sure) and put a cast iron skillet on top for 2 hours then proceeded to cook up some fried eggs and I could have not made them any better on the stove[]

Warning: This is not a recommended way of cooking ones eggs!

[Ki Choi]

Fried eggs...if I was in marketing department of Pass Labs, I would jump all over such a story...very funny indeed.

The Pass monoblocks use 500W AC power when idling and suck more than 1000W AC from the wall when driven moderately high while producing 600W. I used to have to run downstairs perodically to the garage to reset the 15A circuit breakers when I drove the amp hard... If I still had the SoundLab electrostatic speakers driven by the Pass amps, never mind the eggs....I could have cooked a small turkey for the Thanksgiving meal!

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Fried eggs...if I was in marketing department of Pass Labs, I would jump all over such a story...very funny indeed.

The Pass monoblocks use 500W AC power when idling and suck more than 1000W AC from the wall when driven moderately high while producing 600W. I used to have to run downstairs perodically to the garage to reset the 15A circuit breakers when I drove the amp hard... If I still had the SoundLab electrostatic speakers driven by the Pass amps, never mind the eggs....I could have cooked a small turkey for the Thanksgiving meal!

Nice assortment of speakers! You have quite a choice there.

I do not listen loud, but I run Bryston 7B ST's and they do not get very hot with the N801's.

I run a Behringer EQ for room correction. It is funny, I ran the pink noise and use the curve that was obtained. There is a pretty big imporvement in midrange, which I assume is my room. A definate improvement in clarity. I never noticed a shortcomming, and I ususlly forget if I have it on, but when I switch it on, there is a definite and immediate improvement. Give one a try.

[Ki Choi]

7BSTs are great amps. I had them with N802 and Maggies few set ups ago. There are few audio gear I would like to get them again someday...7BSTs are one of those.

Due to the low ceiling (8' high), my main challenge is in the 50Hz to 30Hz with the N800s. I did consider adding TACT 2.2XP in the chain to correct the room condition but I know I would be compromising in transparency in the mids and highs. The Quads and the Khorns are more forgiving in the mid bass section. When I play the test tones, I get very lower frequency 20Hz response from the N800s where the Quad with SW63 are good down to 30Hz and Khorns about the same. However, the room sucks 40 to 50Hz out of the N800s until I get very close to the front wall killing imaging performance.

It is also amazing how close the Trachorned Khorns and Quads sounds to me. They are so different and yet so close... The Khorns play with emotion and life like sound but not much depth (I need to close backs of the Khorns so I can toe them in may be)... where the Quads produce scary type of haunthing imaging but can't play too loudly even with the Gradient subs and crossing over at 109Hz.

[maxg]

I have been rather disappointed with the 802D's each time I have heard them - in comparison to the previous model the 802N. Frankly - I would take an 802N in a heartbeat but the D's you can keep. I know they are supposed to be better - but my ears just dont get it.

As for the matching of the larger B&W's with Rotel - you are kidding surely.....Rotel is a decent high power amp but you are not going to get anything like the full potential of the 802 from a Rotel - especially at lower volume levels.

Best amp I have heard with the 802 is the one I am currently running - the Yamaha MX-D1. 500 watts of digital power with a slightly soft signature when mated with a decent tube pre-amp (Klimo in my case).

Just for reference I have heard the 802's with Krell, Rotel, this Yamaha, Classe, Accuphase, Levinson and Halcro. Cant remember the model numbers of those amps - but they were generally the larger models. I think they were all over 200 wpc into 8 ohms.

How do these setups compare to a KHorn / Tube setup? Different. Its about all you can say. Make your choice - pay your money.