ShapeShifter Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 Have the complete RF-3 Series, but only RS-3's are presently being used. Prefer to use the Heritage models for music and HT: Belles, 4-Cornwalls, Heresies, Quartets & Adademy being used. Other Klipsch models in storage. Will likely sell the RF-3's/RC-3 next year, not used in past 4-5 mos. ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Colin: When, oh when are we going to get an equipment field in our profiles?) Colin, Go over to the Audio Asylum page and press Inmate Systems and then select "Add Your System" and setup your own equipment. Then come back here and add your link to your signature (like I have). It's that easy... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 Hagood - I have a pair of Cornwall mains with Heresy surrounds. I live in Plano, feel free to drop me a line if you would like a demo. My equipment list is on my web page. Click the link in teh sig. Laters, ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagood Posted December 7, 2001 Author Share Posted December 7, 2001 Thanks for all the comments and invitations. I have sent some of you emails. Colin, I have a feeling you're right about going down the path to a tweaking audiophile - I tend to get very serious about all of my hobbies. I should probably wait until I get the kids through College before getting too serious and spending too much money. Maybe some RF-3's or RF-5's. I do presently have a KSW-12 with my System 6 and it sounds great for HT, but I'm not that thrilled with it for music. I didn't think I would need one with the RF's - don't they have plenty off deep bass ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 Hagood, The RF-3's have very good bass. The limited time mine were used was for movies, the KSW-12's main use was for LFE bass w/theater viewing. The sub not need for 2 channel stereo. Wes ------------------ "KLIPSCH IS MUSIC"f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 7, 2001 Share Posted December 7, 2001 Hagood, quite simply (and I am talking under the influence of a bottle of Wolf Blass Yellow Label Cabernet), tweaking or not, the vintage Klipsch have it ALL OVER the modern counterparts. The RF-5 does not even remotely compare to the vintage Klipsch with Alnico. In a direct comparison, it came up second easily, missing a large part of the soul and life of the vintage Cornwall I. Perhaps it might be wonderfulla with HT but for two channel, which is WHERE this forum happens to reside, it comes in a distant second. If you care about reaching the next level, the Reference Series deposits you square in the HT wow factor camp but cannot equal the magical qualities that Klipsch achieved over 25 years ago and has yet to equal since. kh s y s t e m Linn LP-12/Linn Basic Plus/Sumiko Blue Point Rega Planet Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Creek OBH-12 Passive Preamp Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks DIYCable Wire - Various 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnicof>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 12-08-2001 at 05:28 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomer9911 Posted December 8, 2001 Share Posted December 8, 2001 MaxG, Try Tom Cochrane with Red Rider, recorded live with the Edmonton Symphony Orchestra, Boy Inside the Man, (same as Procol Harum in the 70's did). I was using 2 channel Adcom (GFA-585LE) and my Khorns...WOW...ouch isn't enough...and I was at the concert. Another track you may want to look at is White Hot... As for Keith Richards personnal review on the music.... ...Canadian eh? This message has been edited by boomer9911 on 12-08-2001 at 01:17 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagood Posted December 8, 2001 Author Share Posted December 8, 2001 I went back up to my locl shop again last night to listen to the RF's and they had finally gotten the RSW Subs in. I listened to the RF-5's with an RSW-12 and then the RF-7's with the monster RSW-15. I'll I can say is WOW ! The RF's sound great to me alone, but with the RSW's - what a combination ! If the Heritage or Classics sound much better than this, they would be truly awesome ! Even the RSW-10 sounded 5 times better than my KSW-12 for music - great deep, punchy bass, without the boominess. I'm thinking of trading in my KSW, but at over twice the price even for the RSW-10...... This message has been edited by Hagood on 12-08-2001 at 04:16 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted December 8, 2001 Share Posted December 8, 2001 I've heard PA speakers. Klipsch Heritage DO NOT sound like PA speakers. I can't believe that mantra has infected this thread. P.S. My Cornwalls are bone stock and I really like the way they sound. Also, I had my hearing checked recently and it "tested to the limit of the equipment" - which is excellent. This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 12-08-2001 at 04:45 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 8, 2001 Share Posted December 8, 2001 The "PA Speakers" got me too. I have Forte IIs and RF-7s. With amplification that has little distortion at less than a watt output (very hard for most transistor amps) these speakers are smooth. I found that the transistor amp I used to use was the reasn my Fortes used to sound so harsh. Once I fixed the amp problem, the harshness went away. With both speakers, I've replaced the crossover caps with high-quality polyprop. and the iron core inductors with the air core variety. Also, I've applied dynamat to the horns. As a result, both speakers are less tolerant of amp low level distortion. The RF-7s in particular, gained a lot of presence and articulation with the mods. Stock, I think the RF-7s would tolerate a lower quality signal. But with the mods, they are very revealing. The biggest attraction of the RF-7s for me is that they are 2-way. A crossover at 8KHz can smear a stereo image. I find that 2-way speakers image more easily. I love the sound of both speakers, but the image produced by the RF-7s is much more realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted December 8, 2001 Share Posted December 8, 2001 Deang--Well your preference is unassailable but still...I've never heard midrange from a cone, much less a cone that was also supplying bass (what did old PWK think about IM distortion?) that was as good as that from a dedicated compression-driver horn. Even if the cone was made of "cerametalic". The refinement of the RF-7 looks like cost-cutting by the Hoosier Kahuna to me. I also wonder how they get 32hz f3 AND 102 efficiency from a box only about 4-5 cubic feet. Doesn't look Kosher to me. As for PA, well the finest drivers in the world are those developed for motion picture theater sound, you're in Ohio, visit Mike Bates and listen to his rig using TAD and JBL "PA" drivers, see what you think. There are various qualities of PA speakers, you wouldn't compare a cheap JBL EON with a JBL 2225 in a 4560 cabinet matched with a 2441-2395 top end. You wouldn't want to compare your RFs with that either. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew2 Posted December 8, 2001 Share Posted December 8, 2001 I feel the same way as deanG on the reference speakers. I dont want my speakers to sound like a PA system on steroids. The RF'3s are a great deal, sound better then anything I'v herd for the price, and they dont give me a head ach. I understand other people have diffrent listoning preferences, but "I" like the refrence speakers the most. ------------------ Matthew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted December 8, 2001 Share Posted December 8, 2001 Dean- Tweaks to heritage speakers are not done to make them "listenable" but to improve on what is already a great sound. The big advantage of the Heritage speakers are also the reason why people have problems with them. They are tremendously revealing of any inadequacies in the recordings or equiptment that come before them. By being less distinct the cone "cover ups" a lot of inadequacies. Sort of a "homoginized" sound. Often pleasent but often lacking when compared to live performances. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 8, 2001 Share Posted December 8, 2001 Put worthless amplification on the vintage Klipsch and you have the potential for worthless sound. Feed them great amplification and sources, and you have some of the best sound for the money I have ever heard, surely a LOT more refined than the RF-5, which came in second place by a wide margin to a 1977 Cornwall I with Alnico at the horns. Amplification was Wright Sound WPA3.5 Monoblocks which are 2A3 SET amps at 3.5 watts. Preamp was the Joule Electra LK-100 III run by Camelot CD processor and drive. Other amps in service were the Joule Electra Stargates using the 6C33CB tubes in single-ended configuration putting out an insane 20w (I preferred the Wrights, however). The RF-5 was not that bad, surely better than some other Klipsch efforts, but did not have the soul nor subtlty of the Cornwalls with the Alnico. I have said time and time again, that the Vintage Klipsch shine with tubes and sound about as far from the typical PA sound as you can get. Indeed, I was HEAVILY biased against the vintage Klipsch expecting the worst. What poured forth was some of the most gripping, soulful, intoxicating, and musically involving sound I have ever heard! Given these speakers were selling used for $650, I was practically floored! Although the Reference Series Klipsch are a semi-step in the right direction, they DO NOT have the essence of the vintage Klipsch sound down. Granted, if fed a piss poor SS signal, the old horns could very well turn ugly, but given the purity of DHT, the vintage Cornwalls are one of the most musical speakers I have ever heard, bar none. They truly deserve all the praise and accolades. While they are not perfect, I have not heard any modern Klipsch medium density fibreboard speaker come close to the sound I have been getting with these Cornwalls via the RCA Black plates. I dare say, if these speakers came out today, they would cause quite a stir... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discorules Posted December 8, 2001 Share Posted December 8, 2001 Khorns sound unrefined or PA like huh. Ouch! I have Magnepan 1.6 speakers but only as a second choice to the Khorns. The Maggies sound very good but every time I hear the Khorn, it reminds me what the standard is when it comes to reproducing live music. This doesn't necessarily mean loud. As for tweaks, some people are into that I guess. I never felt they needed any when I heard them. Khorns are not the only speakers though that people have that tweak option. My 1.6s came with 1 ohm resistors from Magnepan to tweak the high frquencies if they were too bright for taste. I never used them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 9, 2001 Share Posted December 9, 2001 yeah, but you also hit the nail on the head - I think much of the satisfaction of the big old horns lies in the proper equipment, at least that is what I think now that I have Bottlehead 2A3 tube Paramours at 3.5 watts (6 watts into 3% distortion), before that I was constantly trying different tweaks to improve upon the capabilities of my system, now with the subs and the tubes, I am just so much less interested, now there is nothing imediately "wrong' that needs correcting, I loved the boxes with my ss amp and rock n' roll, but now everyything sounds good, I think that people under estimate how important the sensitivity of the big old horns is to the selection of the front-end equipment and the reproduction of dynamics, the Reference series may well be better suited to SS amps than the far more efficient Heritage models like the LaScala - and now for the AA sysytem posting, lets see, go to the web site ... ------------------ Cornwalls & Klipsch subs; leather couch & feet up; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted December 9, 2001 Share Posted December 9, 2001 What model are those lovely speakers in the picture? Andy This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 12-09-2001 at 08:25 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted December 9, 2001 Share Posted December 9, 2001 Dean---The KPT-325? I think I'd like it. Certainly a low distortion device. The crossover at 600hz means that the midrange should be very clear with hair-trigger transients, I think that small aluminum or titanium diaphragms immersed in massive magnetic fields and horn-loaded do small detail and shadings better than massive cones in weak fields do. Note that by their nature the high performence compression drivers used in a 2-way like this speaker are far more sophisticated and refined devices than the cheaper "bullhorn" type mid drivers used in the Heritages. This speaker is an example by Klipsch of an "Old Time Religion" 2-way horn system of the Altec-JBL school. Small theater speakers like this are used by many hornies of that school. I think the KPT would probably sound very good in a home and for someone wanting a Cornwall would be a good alternative. I'm glad somebody here is showing a little interest in the pro line. Now look at the specs for the KPT-325 to see something interesting. It has a cabinet larger than the RF-7 and less claimed efficiency, yet only claims an f3 of 45hz vs. the claimed f3 of the RF-7 of 32hz. Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted December 9, 2001 Share Posted December 9, 2001 Dean--Klipsch recommends the use of an active crossover at 800 or 1000hz, the 800 would probably sound better. Prosound active crossovers usually use very steep 3rd or 4th order slopes, that means very little overlap between drivers. Such crossovers have controls for balancing the drivers, one would simply attenuate the treble driver until it was in balance with the low frequency driver, that would give an overall system efficiency of 101db. All other things being equal at a given level the smaller driver will always have higher IM because of the longer excursion needed. I have Altec 605As, a co-axial with a 15" woofer with a compression driver mounted to the back of the woofer, the horn of which runs right through the woofer pole piece and ends in a small multicell, crossover is at 1600hz. Now this is a very fine 15; light paper cone, 3" edgewound voicecoil, large Alnico magnet--a paragon of 15" woofer art. Now it sounds very fine, I love the speakers, but compared to my Altec VOTs using the same basic driver elements but crossing at 500hz the sound is slightly "warm and fuzzy", not as sharp and clear. A buddy and I spent all day today playing with various compression drivers and horns: JBL LE-175s, 2420s, 2426s and Altec 806s; horns used were 500hz Altecs and my pal's homemade 500hz tractrix, 700hz Edgar tractrix saladbowls and 800hz JBLs. One conclusion we reached was that crossing at 500 vs. 700 or 800 was always better (and at the end of the day my JBLs and saladbowls were on the shelf and I was back to stock Altec VOT). But that's me, all this speaker stuff is subjective in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted December 11, 2001 Share Posted December 11, 2001 quote: Originally posted by deang: Having never heard a Heritage speaker on any tube gear at all - I should recant. You have to hear them. The Heritage line can produce some of the most beautiful sounds any speaker can. True, not for everyone and not with all kind of music, but hearing classical music, specially those horn instruments (they are just ALIVE), is a pleasure beyond words... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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