Perfect volume?

[maxg]

Wow - lots of responses. In no particular order:

Paul - nice one - made me laugh.

Dean and Craig - yes - varies with both listener and music (wife's prefered level is about 10 dB below mine).

Who was it asked with reference to a home threatre? I think that was it anyway - sorry memory failing.

Dave and Larry - yes - well above background noise levels - mine are well below 50 dB (I think I did mention that) and even the too quiet listening levels are -65-85 dB. Just right is about 70 to 90 for a typical classical recording. PF or equivalent tend to go louder with Amused to death at the 95-115 levels (that 115 is peak mind you - not long sustained) and only with wife in another city.

Just a bit further on this - take a given piece of music - put it on too quiet - sounds lovely all the same and I can listen to it at this level very happily, except......I know a slight turn of the volume dial and it will be just perfect - and that hurts.

Often I am listening to "too quiet" level for a period of time and quite forget about it - it really does sound wonderful - and then I go and up it a smidge and OMG it is suddenly SO obvious what has been missing.

That is my perfect volume in a nutshell. I dont think it is a Fletcher Munsen issue - we are at about 60 dB minimum anyway. I think Larry is right in that is it amp related - and possibly pre-amp. Interestingly I find it is not recording noise sensitive either. I have records that appear to play dead quite (black background and all that) at lower volumes but become quite noisy at higher volumes. The perfect volume, however, is still at that higher level.

Also remember - that for everything I listen to with the possibly exception of Amused to Death there is very much a maximum volume I do not like to exceed as the sonics start to suffer.

There is also the minor concern that this amp of mine will blow my woofers across the room. The woofers are only rated to 100 watts.

[pauln]

I have read (no reference I can recall - maybe Who can comment) that way back when, people were collected and asked to set the volume to "where it is all there". The most common setting was about 87dB and that this is therefore the level that engineers use to monitor/mix/master (?) when making recordings in the studio.

Perhaps this is where the FM curve flattens out sufficient for most people to "hear it all".

For my tastes, this 87dB level is where the music reaches the practical serious listening level to me, but I much prefer to drive it up so measured peaks make the low 90's (so the actual peaks are approaching 105dB).

[Mallette]

Altrighty, then. We had to decrease transfer between a pair of adjoining classrooms at my training facility. I can't recall exactly what they put up (I had it contracted) but it was just some dense wallboard with the joins sealed. We got a good -10db in noise reduction. That would fix you up nicely and it sounds like about the only option for you. You did mention it might be amp/preamp related, and there is no way I can comment on that. However, my own experience is that (for me) volume issues have always been a combination of Fletcher/Munson and my need for "realistic" levels. One is fixable by EQ, the other by the volume control.

For my own "after hours" listening, I generally choose things that have 'realistic" levels that work. Stuff like harpsichord, harp, etc. that sounds fairly silly at 90+db.

Good luck figuring it out...

Dave

[tommyboy]

Does you system have a perfect volume?

By that I mean the point at which you feel you are getting all the music there is to have - but it is not so loud that it is starting to distort (possibly ear rather than system related)?

Mine does - and it is a bit of a PITA because it is just slightly louder than I can listen with the rest of the house asleep. On those rare ocasions, though, when everyone else is out - oh boy does it sound good.

Related to this - anyone know why this happens? Further, anyone know a good way to reduce that perfect volume level? About 5 dB would do it for me nicely. I have tried simply sitting closer to the system and this works to a point (not quite as good as turning the volume up) but dragging the recliner over the rug aint the easiest thing in the world to do.....

Our living room is only 16*14, so it's hard for me to turn it up loud enough to distort. It's WAY too loud to listen to by that point in our small room. But as far as a perfect volume, there is a number (-25db) on my receiver where I like to leave it.

[gonzp]

While room acoustics and upstream equipment do play a huge part, I am wondering if the media recording level plays into the equation also? It seems to me that I find the "sweet spot" at differant volume levels on differant recordings.

[colterphoto1]

Interesting quesiton Max.

I live alone, in a stone house, on two acres, with hydronic heat, and heavily insulated attic (at last). The noise floor here is miniscule if the air handler is not on for A/C.

Therefore I get by with a very low 'perfect volume'. Of course the system is capable of much more, but I hear 'breaking-up' in my ears prior to any serious system distortion. What is that anyway, where my ears distort? I have a medication that gives me tinnitus, but the break up is bothersome.

On my Yamaha receiver, generally -40 to -30 for general music listening, -20 for HT, I occasionally let 'er rip at -10.

Outdoors the LSI like -30 for average shop listening, -20 for 'enjoyment' mode. The neighbors rarely hear it although that might change with the addition of the MCM's.

Doc will be here on Sunday, perhaps we'll do some measurements.

[oldbuckster]

Is there really a perfect volume? I listen alot in the wee hours of morning, I don't like headphones, I want to listen to my speakers. I find I listen to, and hear more at lower volumes in the morning, and as the day moves on, I have to turn the volume up abit. The quiet and stillness of the night doesn't require alot of volume, but as noise around you increases, up goes the volume.............if this is what your talking about........REAL LOUD music is only pleasent for short periods of time, then it becomes noise............never thought I'd write such a thing.....must be gettin' old..........EH ?????????

[leok]

I try for as close to what would be the natural concert level as possible. Since I prefer sitting midway back in a concert hall where the volume is moderate, this works particularly well with recordings that present a similar soundstage (which includes a fair amount of hall reverberation). With recordings that put the listener in the front row (some string quartets are done this way (DG esp) I find the appropriate volume is higher. Since I prefer sound a bit quieter I tend to move further away from the speakers when listening to such recordings. As usual, for me, what's important is how far into the silence the dynamics of the presentation can go, not how loud it can get.

Leo

[PrestonTom]

Room acoustics is a big part of it, and that certainly includes the noise floor. It's not all of it though, and you sure can't blow off the electronics as being part of it. Fact is, there are just too many variables involved to say one thing is the main thing. All we can say is that everyone knows and agrees they have that magic spot on the attenuator.

The actual noise floor (with well-recorded music) is more likely going to be determined by the room (refrigerator compressor in the next room, HVAC, traffic noise, kids screaming outside etc). The noise floor of the electronics will probably be well below that. There are exceptions, but this is the typical case.

However with the amount of compression in most popular recordings, there really are very few "quiet passages" or real dynamics in the recording itself (not the same as simply being "loud"). Every few months I get out to an opera. If you are not familar with this, the performance is "live and acoustic". Typically, there will not be any sound reinforcement, and none of the instruments are amplified. The halls / theaters are typically devoid of most acoustically absorbing material, and you will also "hear the hall" (if it is performed in an "all purpose" hall then ignore my comments ...). In spite of this, the volume is loud and the sound is very dynamic and is without compression. IMO, It is that lack of compression that is most critical in making "live music sound "live".

If the music is compressed, then turning it up gives the "loudness" but not the dynamic uncompressed sound. I beleive this is why the "magic" volume is so dependent on the specific recording. Most folks would not consider an opera (or much classical music) to be the definitive "test signal", but don't knock it until you have tried it.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[IB Slammin]

Does you system have a perfect volume?

Yes, and I'm sure everyone else has one too -- but it's not likely the same for everyone.

My perfect volume? ........ Vase located15' away at back wall. Sweetspot at 13'. Just the ba*tard CW's, sorry, no subs.[]

tc

[J M O N]

Very interesting question and lots of variables mentioned, most importantly the individual listener. But could there also be another variable -- the equipment? Maybe with all else being equal for a specific individual, do changes in speakers, amplifiers, sources, etc. change that "perfect volume?"

When I got my first SET amp (Wright Sound 3.5 Monos), one of the very interesting things I noticed was that I didn't feel the need to turn up the volume as much as I had with any other amp I've had.

[pauln]

When I got my first SET amp (Wright Sound 3.5 Monos), one of the very interesting things I noticed was that I didn't feel the need to turn up the volume as much as I had with any other amp I've had.

I notice the same thing with my Wrights!. My listening is ALL inside the first watt. Even when I had amps that had the feature, I was never a fan of adjusting the FM contour at low volumes ("loudness") - it sounds like too much HiFi boom and twinkle. How did we ever get to the point of boosting the bass and treble at low volumes? When the volume is low these should be low as well (it's how the ear works). I find that my perfect volume is high 80's dB ave with measured peaks bumping up in the 90's - which means the actual peaks are up around 100db, maybe a little more. I don't think I have yet to put more than 1/2 honest watt into my La Scalas since I have had them...

The mid and tweeter elements of the late model LS are a couple of dB lower than the previous driver models. The AL-4 network compensated for this. By replacing the AL-4 networks with BEC A's I think I have a relative 2-3dB increase in the bass relative to the mid and high response... I sure like the way it sounds.

[Mallette]

"How did we ever get to the point of boosting the bass and treble at low volumes? When the volume is low these should be low as well (it's how the ear works)."

Different opinion. Yes, it is how the ear works. OTOH, I don't really care to listen to music from a 100 yards away (let's say, a string quartet in a cathedral with nobody else present). I would move forward until the bass and treble sounded correct. In a listening room, that would mean turning up the volume. As you said, it is how the ear works. In my case, not always practical for one reason or the other. I've found no need to boost treble with my 'horns, but I do employ about 6 db/octave of bass boost below 100hz at medium to low levels.

Over the years, I found loudness compensation to work well at precisely one volume level in a given room with given speakers. That makes sense. I had a Luxman for a number of years that had a variable loudness comp from significant to nill depending upon the amount of gain applied. It was good with the Rectilinear III's I used it with, but probably would match much less well with the Klipsch. In any event, it would work better than a fixed curve.

There is probably a (very) small business proposition for a technically savvy audiophile to construct custom loudness compensation stages for specific room/speaker/amp combinations.

Dave

[colterphoto1]

Agreed Dave, my Yamaha Natural Sound 2ch receiver has the variable loudness circuit and I really think it helps a lot. I use it with RB3II's in my bedroom at low levels mostly.

[Dax617]

I have a mac C26 preamp with a variable loudness feature that attenuates the volume I also have a Velodyne hgs-18 that kicks in around 45-50 hz. I use the sub modestly. The recent combo has improved the "perfect volume". The sub and a modest tone control give a wieght to the system.The Khorn bass bin likes the kick drum and seems to give added realism and percussivenes to the snare @ higher listening levels. In my opinion accoustic modes,reflections and the like have a more pronounced effect as the volume increases.If you have a horrible accoustic problem you will probably see it in your soundstage first at any volume. Noise floor would be the practical consideration for lower volumes enhancing clarity and relevant loudness. You will not have the "disturbing" impact k horns and their cousins can produce @ low volumes. With all of this said your program material has a profound effect.

T.C.

[maxg]

I have a mac C26 preamp with a variable loudness feature that attenuates the volume I also have a Velodyne hgs-18 that kicks in around 45-50 hz. I use the sub modestly. The recent combo has improved the "perfect volume". The sub and a modest tone control give a wieght to the system.The Khorn bass bin likes the kick drum and seems to give added realism and percussivenes to the snare @ higher listening levels. In my opinion accoustic modes,reflections and the like have a more pronounced effect as the volume increases.If you have a horrible accoustic problem you will probably see it in your soundstage first at any volume. Noise floor would be the practical consideration for lower volumes enhancing clarity and relevant loudness. You will not have the "disturbing" impact k horns and their cousins can produce @ low volumes. With all of this said your program material has a profound effect.

T.C.

Interesting that you describe "improving the perfect volume". It is not exactly what I am refering to, however. In essence what I am looking for is. taking the best that your system can sound and making it play like that at a reduced volume.

In my system with my old amp and pre-amp the perfect volume was actually lower than it is today, but, perfect volume on the new system is, to my ears, better than before musically speaking.

One final point. Whilst there is certainly variation in perfect volume between recordings it does seem that I can find a perfect volume that will suffice for all music. In other words a volume that gives everything there is to get from the music - although it may be louder than required for certain pieces they do not suffer as a result.