Mikie Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 I'm looking to copy my old albums to digital and want to remove clicks, pops, & rumble in the process. The only software I've found that does all of these things comes with the DAK Mixer Interface System http://www.dak.com/Reviews/2020Story.cfm At $69 the price is good and it looks like I can configure the level of restoration. Does anyone have experience with this software or other recommendations? -- Thanks, Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Removing all of the "noise" will also kill the music. I tried some similar software about 3 years ago with my freind Joel trying to burn copies of some impossibly rare and totally effed up Sun Ra and Cecil Taylor records and the result was lacking to say the least. You'd be better off just burning raw tranfers--unless you're talking about really beat records that you simply cannot find decent copies to either download or buy. The cleaned up digital transfers I made were OK for the car, but the beat vinyl still stomped all over the scrubbed digital in my main system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted April 30, 2007 Author Share Posted April 30, 2007 Thanks Allan - I guess nothing comes without a price. Most of my albums don't need treatment, but a few need serious help. Perhpas limited use is the best course - if it doesn't work I'm only out $69. -- Thanks, Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Funny you should mention it.. I've been a burnin fool lately. Currently my nearly roached copy of Gaucho. I just use my old Marantz CDR and leave a few dB of headroom. If the surface noise isn't constantly causing digital overs, it's not that objectionable. Skate a little lower now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Can you transfer digital to vinyl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Can you transfer digital to vinyl? Happens all the time. Just check out those Scorpio vinyl reissues!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I'm looking to copy my old albums to digital and want to remove clicks, pops, & rumble in the process. The only software I've found that does all of these things comes with the DAK Mixer Interface System http://www.dak.com/Reviews/2020Story.cfm At $69 the price is good and it looks like I can configure the level of restoration. Does anyone have experience with this software or other recommendations? -- Thanks, Mikie Another good product: www.esotericsound.com ES has a unit that does the majority of the clicks & pops; It's "pricey", but does not affect the end result as much as many of the cheaper types. They also sell the Cedar $7k pro units used by studios..... I've used one in between a Technics SL1200 MIII with a Shure M97xE and into a TASCAM CC-222-MKII with very good results on some of my old vinyl. The TASCAM unit has a direct RIAA MM TT input and you don't have to go through amps, etc. ES also has some very, very good turntables for folks looking to get back into vinyl. You can also call the owner and discuss the unit with him. Very nice folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I use Sony Sound Forge 9.0A ($229.00) and record at input levels around -8.0 db at 44.1 bit rate. Then use the click & pop removal, then if needed equalize on the fly to suit my tastes. Next delete the before and after needle thump at the beginning and end. Next normalize sound levels on both channels to -3.0 db. Then run a clipped peak check and fix if necessary. There are a zillion other things you can do--- repair, overite, add echo, mono to stereo, stereo to mono, add acoustic impulses, (hundreds of mic variations, hall sounds,) and selective noise reduction, etc. You might also consider the jury is still out on how long a burned disc will last---10 years? 20 years? Commercial discs are mechanically pressed and will probably last much longer. Then again in 20 years the players will be forgotton and the new players will be playing 3D, multiphasic 10 teribite discs and will there be any old players still around that function? JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I posted this a year or so ago in response to the same question. Hope it helps.. I've had a number of emails/PM's in the past week or so asking for information on archiving LP's. Rather than respond individually, I decided to make a post on the matter. I am going to minimize hardware/software, etc. to the bare bones of the process. If there is interest in specific soundcards, turntables, software, processors, etc. we'll discuss it in the thread as there will be as many opinions on the subject as there are Forum members.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I will open with a bit of a philosophical question: Why would an analog-loving vinyl freak make peace with the digital devil? My answer would be that the more you love records, the more aware of how each moment of sheer listening bliss steals the life from those irreplaceable discs. And, believe me, they are irreplaceable. It may seem that there is an inexhaustible supply of cheap records only you want but the oceans were once rotten with whales, too. Every few years I break a 78 and think: What if that were the last copy? Someday, it will be. So, a true vinyl lover is a conservationist. How to conserve and enjoy at the same time? Digitize, of course. Make peace with the devil and make him do your bidding. The fact is that most audiophiles have little or no experience with digital outside the realm of the CD or MP3. Not surprising they cling to a "they'll pry my turntable from my cold, dead hands" mindset. Even the few DVD-A's available that offer 24/96 or 24/192 are often not all that well recorded...and at those resolutions it really starts to matter. Some will never be convinced, but the fact is that in a blind test only a very few vinyl lovers would be able to detect the difference between a 24/192 recording of an LP and the same disk played on the same system using the same equipment at the identical level, and most would be quite happy with 24/88.2. The equipment required to do this is quite modest compared to that you already have, and though a 24/192 LP recording is going to take up 4GB or so of space the cost of digital storage is dropping so rapidly that it is hardly a factor anymore. So, don't wait until the last stylus blunts itself on the last record...come over to the dark side today and save those discs for quiet moments with yourself! Optional steps will be in RED. 1. Get a quality digitizing device. There are many fine soundcards out there. I own three that excel in their price range and functions: M-Audio Revolution Audiophile USB (Low price and usable with a laptop) Digital Audio Labs Card Deluxe (medium price, highly regarded) ESL WamiRack XL (a bit higher and the only one of these that will do 24/192) 2. Decide on a resolution. MaxG and similar are likely to require the very best at 24/192. If you are at this level but think you just MIGHT want a CD for the car, then choose 24/176.4 since 176.4/4=44.1 for clean CD downsamples without dithering. If you want about 98% of the quality but still have reservations about the space required, go for 24/88.2. Yes, I skipped 24/96. Insufficient audible difference with 24/88.2 and doesn't have the advantage of being cleanly downsampled to 16.44.1 for CDs. 3. Get recording software Again, lots of choices here but make sure it supports the resolution you choose. There is absolutely no audible difference between one recording software and another. However, there is a vast difference in features, the vast majority of which are non-essential for the purist so it that is you get the cheapest package that supports the resolution you want to use. For me, it's Sound Forge as I work at all resolutions and want some edit and processing functions as well. More on that later. 4. Record PRE-PROCESS Little spoken of in the secret councils of the analog brotherhood is that LP's are, in fact, a highly compressed medium. If this were not so, quiet passages would simply disappear into groove/wall noise. Analog engineers constantly "rode gain" to insure that the constricted dynamic limits of the LP medium were not exceeded. In the early seventies, several remedies appeared amongst which the DBX Compander (compressor/expander) emerged as the best and longest lived. I still have an original DBX 117 on line at a friends vacation home. I've almost never listened to records without one of these since about 1975. Properly set they can over double the dynamic range of the LP and virtually eliminate groove noise with no audible side effects, and make themselves inaudible as what little noise they add is also reduced to inaudible by thier own action...neat trick!. (Unconvinced purists may skip out now) So, find yourself a bargain on EBay and learn to set the perfect expansion level for each disc. Every disc has a "just right" spot you will find with a little practice. Set it and record and you've just combined the best of analog with the best of digital. 5. Store Doing this once can be fun. The second time it sux. After that, it can be torture. Without going into all the possibilities I am simply going to recommend one product: Buffalo TeraStation. Set to RAID 5 (its default, so ready to plug and play) you get 750 GB of network-attached storage accessible from any computer and most decent media distribution devices on your network for well less than a grand. That's enough space for over 700 LP's at 24/88.2 and will take up a lot less space! When the time comes a drive fails, you just pull it out, replace, and TeraStation will take care of the rest. POST PROCESS Getting a near-digital dynamic range from an LP and virtually eliminating the groove noise is really neat. Getting rid of the pops at no cost at all to the quality is a bloody miracle. There are a number of softwares to accompish this, but my favorite is the NX package for Sound Forge. Processing is done only once and the result saved. If you don't like it you can undo and reset until you are happy. Hardware devices for this purpose have been designed that work pretty well, but the downside was that the whole signal passed through adding whatever "flavor" the device might have to the sound quality. Most purists would rather have the pops... Software doesn't work like that. It has no, and cannot have (since we are in the digital domain) any impact on the signal whatsoever until it gets a match to the signature of the noises its been set to look for. Then it lifts out precisely those digits and replaces them with a composite of what was happening just before and just after. While this sounds like it would be audible since some information has been synthesized, we are talking about tiny fractions of a second here and you'd really have to do some training to ever hear where the pop was. In any event, the action is much nicer than a "POP" in the middle of Miles Davis. SUMMARY Is it all as simple as it sounds? Not really. But neither is setting the azimuth on a cartridge or figuring out values for a crossover. However, it is not rocket science and the results will come closer to "perfect sound forever" than you have ever been. Now, let a thousand flowers bloom, a hundred schools of thought contend. Chairman Mao, 1957. 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kaiser SET say Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Nice break down with options Dave[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Thanks for walking through the decisions/steps so clearly Dave. l'll research Sound Forge a bit before making a decision. -- Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 The Sound Forge package 9.0 ($229.00) now has the Noise reduction pluggin (used to be $400.00) and CDA-5.2 (pro cd burning software) included and some other kool pluggins. Also if you know someone who has upgraded he can have his old license transferred to you with the older software (8.0D and prior) for whatever price he wants or for nothing if he wants nothing. The only restriction is you cannot upgrade the old software. A fax message sent to Sony Support with the signature of the doner is required then Sony will issue you a new activation key. My old software eventually goes to my old guru buddy this way. The older software (8.0) does not contain the Noise Reduction pluggin or CDA-5.2 pro burning software and must be purchased separately. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 "The Sound Forge package 9.0 ($229.00) now has the Noise reduction pluggin (used to be $400.00) and CDA-5.2 (pro cd burning software) included and some other kool pluggins. " What a deal...Guys, this is a no-brainer. Take a look at the features and consider that when I was engineering the functions in this package that were available as hardware would have cost many, many thousands and not worked anywhere near as well. Life in the future is GOOD! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted May 2, 2007 Author Share Posted May 2, 2007 I noticed that Sound Forge 9 does compression. Does anyone know if it also does expansion? In Dave's earlier post he mentioned the need to expand 70's music. - Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted May 3, 2007 Share Posted May 3, 2007 I have not used the latest version with plugins included, but the separate package plugins did have expansion. I did not try it as I've used DBX units for this purpose for years and been totally satisfied. My current main one is a DBX4BX and it is awesome. I would no more listen to LP's without dynamic restoration than I would without RIAA. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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