Allan Songer Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 That is the most ridiculous theory I've ever heard. You never cease to amaze me Mike. Typical of his BS.. Validating his preference by denigrating others. Pretty obnoxious. My favorite is when he complimented Craig on his VRD amps by telling him they sounded just like solid state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Apart from distortion characteristics (since those have been beat to death), what are the other factors? Slew rate. Thanks - sounds like I've got a bit more reading to do. No, not really Doc. Just more listening. You can't explain everything you hear, hear well or don't hear at all. Now, if you could ever just tell me what treatments I need for that "Slap Ecco" (sp) bay area. What do I need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 That is the most ridiculous theory I've ever heard. You never cease to amaze me Mike. Typical of his BS.. Validating his preference by denigrating others. Pretty obnoxious. My favorite is when he complimented Craig on his VRD amps by telling him they sounded just like solid state. I'm offended by his following remark. Seems to be stereotyping those who like tubes. We all know that with the onset of old age, comes a decrease in our ability to hear high frequencies. Since most speakers usually exhibit rising output impedance as frequency goes up (especially tweeters), I have to wonder if perhaps all the rage about tubes with the more seasoned folk on the forum is that the tonal balance is shifted up a bit? It would definitely explain all the observations about clarity, detail, imaging, whatever that can arguably be associated with high frequency extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Apart from distortion characteristics (since those have been beat to death), what are the other factors? Slew rate. Thanks - sounds like I've got a bit more reading to do. No, not really Doc. Just more listening. You can't explain everything you hear, hear well or don't hear at all. Now, if you could ever just tell me what treatments I need for that "Slap Ecco" (sp) bay area. What do I need? I see a Crown, in that shot ...... D150/2 ..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Oh well, in 1985 when I switched from tubes to SS I eliminated high-freq noise, rumble, muddy bass, hum, and feedback at high volume levels. I don't think I want to spend thousands of dollars to go backwards for some psuedo musical trait that 99.99999% of the population cannot hear. JJK JJ, Oh. At first, I thought you were describing the difference between LP's & CD's! [][] tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 "It would definitely explain all theobservations about clarity, detail, imaging, whatever that can arguablybe associated with high frequency extension." I don't understand this. Why are those words indicative of high frequency extension? Maybe I'm reading it wrong. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Apart from distortion characteristics (since those have been beat to death), what are the other factors? Slew rate. Thanks - sounds like I've got a bit more reading to do. No, not really Doc. Just more listening. You can't explain everything you hear, hear well or don't hear at all. Now, if you could ever just tell me what treatments I need for that "Slap Ecco" (sp) bay area. What do I need? I see a Crown, in that shot ...... D150/2 ..?? You devil: you spotted that sucker. Pretty observant for a seasoned...oh nevermind. BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 DrWho wrote: "You're right - I'm never going to get it until someonestarts posting quantifiable data instead of all these fancy descriptorssubjective to psychoacoustics." Do you think you would have abetter chance understanding a woman (I know, it's a trick question) byreviewing her written profile or meeting her in person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 DrWho wrote: "You're right - I'm never going to get it until someone starts posting quantifiable data instead of all these fancy descriptors subjective to psychoacoustics." Do you think you would have a better chance understanding a woman (I know, it's a trick question) by reviewing her written profile or meeting her in person? ....................Do you think you would have a better chance understanding a woman...................... pauln, Not sure that the boy is quite seasoned enough to answer that question.[] Who, ya know, there is a bit more to it than just having hair on your head.[H] Sorry Mike, I couldn't help it.[] tc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 Funny how I share about a very quantifiable and audible behavior of a trait inherant with a certain topology and everyone goes right to criticizing the messenger. My apologies if my humor about old age didn't make it through the translation process - sheesh, you'd think y'all were insecure! (well the ones complaining anyway). The crazy thing is nobody has yet chimed in as to how this might even be benficial! I wonder how many of the whiners even have a clue what I'm talking about...quick, everyone go run to google! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 That is the most ridiculous theory I've ever heard. You never cease to amaze me Mike.Care to enlighten the world about how output impedance doesn't matter? or the impedace of the speaker? Or was it the jokes about old age bothering you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 My favorite is when he complimented Craig on his VRD amps by telling him they sounded just like solid state. It's by far the best compliment one could give to an amp designer [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 DrWho wrote: "You're right - I'm never going to get it until someone starts posting quantifiable data instead of all these fancy descriptors subjective to psychoacoustics." Do you think you would have a better chance understanding a woman (I know, it's a trick question) by reviewing her written profile or meeting her in person? I guess that this is in comparison to all of those subjectivists who do... And the comparison is not reading about her versus meeting her, its meeting her and then observing and noting objective data versus subjective and amorphous terms. Why is it the folks who like the subjective approach assume that the objective approach doesn't involve reality? Just who is suggesting that you "understanding a woman by reviewing her written profile"? What a screwy assumption. Just because someone persists in describing events in terms that are meaningless except to themselves does not mean that others who persist in attempting to identify qualities that are independently reproduceable and definable fail to experience and understand reality! The difference is that one group attempts to identify qualities that can be communicated in a meaningful manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 Apart from distortion characteristics (since those have been beat to death), what are the other factors? Slew rate. Thanks - sounds like I've got a bit more reading to do.No, not really Doc. Just more listening. You can't explain everything you hear, hear well or don't hear at all. Now, if you could ever just tell me what treatments I need for that "Slap Ecco" (sp) bay area. What do I need? I'm confused - are you saying slew rate doesn't matter?As far as that pingy slapback action - I think a few absorption type panels going along the sides of the parallel walls surrounding the couch would be a good start. Go as thick as you can (like no less than 4" if it'll fit). I'm not exactly sure what kind of aesthetics you're aiming for, but you might consider throwing a heavy curtain that wraps around back there or something crazy like that - it would probably help to cover up that window and the folded shape of the heavy curtain will do a little diffusion as well (provided it's heavy enough - none of this lace stuff...). It would probably also help to throw some stuff along that front wall too, but diffusion is probably the better route there. The absence of side walls will kinda be working to your advantage, but there's some chance that the room is coming back at the listening position all weird too (something easily verified with a few measurements). I suppose it sounds like a lot of work, but it could be done way overkill for under $500. You can work your way down from that to fit a price range and aesthetic impact that you desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 I'm offended by his following remark. Seems to be stereotyping those who like tubes.My apologies for offending - it was meant in good humor.Btw, the obnoxious description doesn't change the behavior of high output impedance...surely you're not offended by that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 "It would definitely explain all the observations about clarity, detail, imaging, whatever that can arguably be associated with high frequency extension." I don't understand this. Why are those words indicative of high frequency extension? Maybe I'm reading it wrong. ??? Let's say you're in the studio and the manager comes up behind you and is like, "man - could you make that image better?" or "increase the detail?" or "increase the clarity?" - basically requests being made by someone that doesn't know what he's doing. The easiest thing to do is lean over and crank the HF knob on the mixing console. Then when he walks away you put it back to normal - which is fun when he comes back and talks about how much better it sounds...but that's probably going a bit off topic. I love psychoacoustics.Or to look at it another way - it would be very hard to achieve those descriptions with a system lacking in high frequency extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 Just because someone persists in describing events in terms that are meaningless except to themselves does not mean that others who persist in attempting to identify qualities that are independently reproduceable and definable fail to experience and understand reality! The difference is that one group attempts to identify qualities that can be communicated in a meaningful manner. Listening with the measuring equipment out?!? Blasphemy! I thought women were the only ones capable of multitasking? Oops, there I go stereotyping again! Shame on me. But just to stress the same point Mark is making....why in the world would anyone want to quantify anything that has no bearing on actual perception? Talk about a complete waste of time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 Who, ya know, there is a bit more to it than just having hair on your head.[H]Is that why you shaved it off? [] Speaking of seasoning....would that be like the Axe deodorant stuff? Or would garlic work better? [A] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 That is the most ridiculous theory I've ever heard. You never cease to amaze me Mike. Typical of his BS.. Validating his preference by denigrating others. Pretty obnoxious. Isn't it ironic that those who complain the loudest, most seem to embody that which they protest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 "Anyone happen to have any measurements of the output impedance of their amplifiers?" How do you go about measuring the output impedance of a amplifier? At least a simple approximation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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