Harman Kardon, Denon or Yamaha?

[codyaaron2]

Does anyone own this model?

Harman Kardon 595W 7.1-Ch. A/V Home Theater Receiver

Model: AVR-247

If so do you like it? Pros and Cons

Im looking at getting the RF-82 Home Theater System and i am

looking at this model that I seen at Best Buy today. Is one better

than the other between Harman Kardon, Denon and Yamaha

Thanks

[codyaaron2]

Does anyone here use Harman Kardon?

Or is Denon or Yamaha better, or maybe another brand.

Thanks for any help

[schwock5]

A lot of people on this forum use Harmon Kardon and Denon. I believe most useers have said Yamaha recievers matched with Klipch tend to be too bright for their taste. Denon is sort of a flat reserved direct sound, and a lot of people prefer the higher model Harmon Kardons, but to a certian price range, then everyone here will tell you to go separates (Outlaw, Emotiva, Rotel).

I use a Denon 3805 and just recently found an old amp in my mom's house i'm using for my fronts, but the Denon is powering everything else (8.1 system). I play movies and music through the Denon 3910 DVD player and when i was using solely the Denon I thought it was fantastic. For the price, the Denon's have power and an enormous feature set. Their new lineups are coming out soon this year, and if you don't need HDMI 1.3 converting or the new Dolby Plus and DTS whatever formats, stores will be unloading their old stocks and it would be a good time to jump on them. I might be upgrading to a new denon soon and be selling my 3805 if you're interested.

For convenience and price / performance, i don't think Denon's can be beat.

[codyaaron2]

What options or specs should I be looking at when buying a receiver?

Here are the specs for the harman Kardon.

Stereo Mode

Continuous Average Power (FTC) per Channel : 65 Watts per channel, 20Hz 20kHz, @ <0.07% THD, both channels driven into 8 ohms

Seven-Channel Surround Modes, Power per Individual Channel,

All Channels Operating at Full Power :

Front L & R Channels : 50 Watts per channel @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz 20kHz into 8 ohms

Center Channel : 50 Watts @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz 20kHz into 8 ohms

Surround Channels (L & R Side, L & R Back) : 50 Watts per channel @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz 20kHz into 8 ohms

Input Sensitivity/Impedance, Linear (High-Level) : 200mV/47k ohms

Signal-to-Noise Ratio (IHF-A) : 100dB

Surround System Adjacent Channel Separation :

Dolby® Pro Logic® I and II : 40dB

Dolby® Digital : 55dB

DTS® : 55dB

Frequency Response at 1W (+0dB, 3dB) : 10Hz 130kHz

High Instantaneous Current Capability (HCC) : ±35 Amps

Transient Intermodulation Distortion (TIM) : Unmeasurable

Slew Rate : 40V/µsec

FM Tuner

Frequency Range : 87.5 108.0MHz

Usable Sensitivity : IHF 1.3µV/13.2dBf

Signal-to-Noise Ratio : Mono/Stereo 70/68dB

Distortion : Mono/Stereo 0.2/0.3%

Stereo Separation : 40dB @ 1kHz

Selectivity : ±400kHz, 70dB

Image Rejection : 80dB

IF Rejection : 90dB

AM Tuner

Frequency Range : 520 1720kHz

Signal-to-Noise Ratio : 45dB

Usable Sensitivity : Loop 500µV

Distortion : 1kHz, 50% Mod 0.8%

Selectivity : ±10kHz, 30dB

Video

Television Format : NTSC

Input Level/Impedance : 1V p-p/75 ohms

Output Level/Impedance : 1V p-p/75 ohms

Video Frequency Response :

Composite and S-Video : 10Hz 8MHz (3dB)

Component Video : 10Hz 100MHz (3dB)

HDMI : Audio and video processing

General

Power Requirement : AC 120V/60Hz

Power Consumption : 65W idle, 540W maximum (7 channels driven)

Unit Dimensions :

Width : 17-5/16" (440mm)

Height : 6-1/2" (165mm)

Depth : 15" (382mm)

Carton Dimensions (W x H x D) : 21-7/8" x 10-1/2" x 18-5/16"

(555mm x 266mm x 465mm)

Unit Weight : 30 lb (13.6kg)

Shipping Weight (System, Accessories, Packing) : 35 lb (15.9kg)

Thanks

[westcott]

You may want to PM Falcon20x before you decide. He went through two HKs in three months and finally got his money back. He could tell you what model numbers. I used to be a big fan of HK and owned an early model for almost two decades and so I am really disappointed in this poor reliability in some of their newer models.

My vote is for Denon.

[schwock5]

I too have heard of recent quality issues dropping with Harmon Kardon, not how they were in the old days.

As far as specs to look, it depends on budget and what you need it for. Everyone's situation is different.

If you're driving a 5.1 system, and you said you have the 82s, i think 50 watts per channels when all driven from that HK is on the low side.

I don't know if you have an HD cable box, upconverting dvd player, and xbox 360 and ps3 and want to run them all together. If so, a reciever with HDMI switching and a lot of inputs to control everything is desired, but it's all price depending.

I can tell you this. The Denon 2307 / 2807 / 3806 goes in price from about ~$700 - $1300 depending on where you look, authorized vs unauthorized dealer, or authorized dealer discount.

My 3805 was ~ 1100 when I got it, brand new from authorized dealer. If you can swing ~1,000 for a reciever, then these Denon's are unbeatable. Any price higher than that, and i believe seperates are the way to go, depending on the power of the amp and the level of processor. What people have siad about the emotiva's are bang for your buck seperates, and then Rotel if you really want to start spending.

The RF 82s aren't the behemoth's of Klipsch's line, like the 83s, but still require good handling from source and amplification. I truly don't believe 50 watts is going to cut it. My 3805 i believe is 130 watts per channel. It's not just necessarily volume you'll get, but clairty throughout the levels you listen them too, and ability to handle the ohm movements.

If you're not that serious about your music / movies, then you dont have to spend much, but you did get Klipsch, and a nice higher end one, so you must be atleast semi-serious. You don't want to buy a ferrari and put low grade oil and fuel in it. You want your baby to perform, and even exceed your expectations. Don't neglect and deny your Klipsch babies that opportunity to shine!

[schwock5]

1 more thing, if you're looking to buy at best buy, they can not really negotiate price. A seperate dealer can negotiate below the MSRP for all speakers and recievers / amps / DVD players

Also best buy will pressure you to buy expensive nonsense cables and a warranty plan (Klipsch's warranty is more than adequate, and a good relationship with a dealer can trump a lot of warranties)

also, depending on the size of your room, you may be able to live without the subwoofer for a little bit, and spend that extra money on a better reciever and DVD player, then get the subwoofer later.

You don't even need the Klipsch sub, as most people here attest you can get better bang for your buck with a company like SVS, and get it later on down the line. Subwoofers dont need to match the main speakers as far as product line, they can be mixed and matched with a lot of breathing room.

I don't even have a sub yet, my RF-7s do more than enough in my apartent and shake it as it is.

[Beesley]

I used to own a H/K avr-525 and thought it sounded better than the denons I heard. I only recently realized the denon recievers I heard in the past may have either been on the wrong setting or hooked up incorrectly (or maybe I hear sounds differently now). At any rate I now own a denon avr-2805 (one model below the 3805) and it sounds fantastic. Sure the H/K 525 or 630 (AVR models I've heard) provide good power, but I feel the denon avr-2805 process the info better. For the most part (not always) recievers are relevant to thair price class, of course with their own unique sonic footprint. I can't stand some of pioneer's lower model recievers, now the old school vsx-47 and 49tx....unbelievable sound performance from a reciever. I don't now everything and I'm not going to pretend like I do.........but I do know what I perceive as good sound. I know its not in the brands you mentioned, but if your willing to get something used, some of the older pioneer elite models can be had for little. Just an idea.

I agree with schwock5 regarding negotioation. You may want to consider going to a specialty retailer, finding what "Last years Model" reciever they had on demo and negotioating. Thats how I ended up with the 2805...300.00 out the door from an authorized dealer

[codyaaron2]

[Arky]

Does anyone here use Harman Kardon?

I've had no issues with my 7200. Excellent power supply for a receiver.

[Beesley]

There was a time a few years ago when authorized dealers were drastically dropping avr-7200 prices online. the avr-525 was a 44 lb beast for a mid priced reciever, and boy did it get hot. I couldn't imagine how heavy the more expensive models are. Do a search on some of the models you have in mind, I'm sure some threads are bound to show up.

[oldbuckster]

Denon would be my last choice...................HK or Yamaha would be my choices........No special order.............

[dtel]

Denon would be my last choice...................HK or Yamaha would be my choices........No special order.............

I am with OB on this one, with Denon as my last choice. I went with Yamaha, I compared it with the Denon in the same price range and the Denon did not compare in sound or features. But I do hear good reviews of the HK, but they seem to be a little more money if you just look at WPC.

Of course that's just personal opinion ! [:|] And I can't belive that old rumor is still around about Yamaha's being bright ! Listen for yourself.

[falcon20x]

Alright here are my .2 cents

 I have a HK 645, it has a nice clean sound but... it was my third receiver in 3 months.

The first one was broke right out of the box, the second receiver locked up after a week  (both HK 445 model directly from HK), the third receiver ( a HK 645 from an online dealer) lost the video side after a week( kind of annoying since all the settings are done through the OSD). I tried every day for a week to see if it would work again, soft and hard resets, etc.... and it did work again but it took a week!! It seems that the receiver had gone into a protection mode and it took that long  for it to lose the memory or cool down.

I have a open rack so cooling was never an issue, and I never had any problems with my other receivers, but I think the HK receivers are way to sensitive to the heat. The  645 was never really hot either but  it was hot enough to mess up the circuit board. I have since moved everything out of the rack and never had an another video problem.

No need to say that HK has major reliability issues, however there service is top notch. They have answered my emails with in 24 hours or less, they were help full and did give me a full refund without any questions, if it was not for the issues I had I would recommand them. Some people here will tell you they have never had any problems with there HK's and it is true, but most of them are using the previous generation of receivers and the problems appear to be only with the new generation 

An another thing, this is not a receiver for newbies , the settings are rather complex and hard to understand if you don't know how to do it, the manual is not very well written either.

The sound quality of the receiver is pretty good and was never questionned just the reliability, it would be hard to find such a clear sound  in receivers for less then $ 699 and I don't think you would be desappointed with it.

If you decide to get one get it from a approved retailer, give it full work out, including the video side ( the video connections has some issues as well), and if you don't like it you can always return it.

[falcon20x]

I agree with schwock5 regarding negotioation.  You may want to consider going to a specialty retailer, finding what "Last years Model" reciever they had on demo and negotioating.  Thats how I ended up with the 2805...300.00 out the door from an authorized dealer

I hait to desagree with you  but buying a demo model, even at a low price, is rarely a good deal.

The receivers in demo are being used 12 hours a day, seven days a week, for months. Just do the math  and you will see how many hours they are getting, not even talking about the abuse the receive.

[schwock5]

I'm not too fond of the idea of demo units either, who knows what anyone has done in the store to them. My suggestion was just waiting until the new models come out, that way retailers will still have the old (brand new in box) stock in the back and will sell them discounted to make room for inventory of the new stuff.

As far as personal opinion to recievers / speakers / anything, find comparable models in the same price range, and test them all at the store, let your ear decide.

I prefer denon for it's ease of use, reliability, and bang for your buck, atleast on the models i've used. My father's HK seemed very confusing to me, layouts of onkyo's seemed disheveled at best, though I hear their quality is great. Hear for yourself! That's the most important thing.

[ClaudeJ1]

Does anyone here use Harman Kardon?

Or is Denon or Yamaha better, or maybe another brand.

Thanks for any help

I really like my Onkyo 501 (it's a few years old, so it's only a 6.1). It decodes all the DVD's with any Doly or DTS signal, plays all my CD's with the "Neo:6" Matrix. In stereo mode, it only puts signals into the Corner horns, but maintains the LFE sub-woofer channell for bass down to 23 Hz. The micro detail and thunderous bass is amazing and it cost me less than $200 as a refurb.

My next receiver will be an Onkyo for sure as they now include HDMI connectors and uprezzing to HD. I'm going to wait until late this year or next year as HDTV prices are dropping like a rock.

[Beesley]

I agree with schwock5 regarding negotioation. You may want to consider going to a specialty retailer, finding what "Last years Model" reciever they had on demo and negotioating. Thats how I ended up with the 2805...300.00 out the door from an authorized dealer

I hait to desagree with you but buying a demo model, even at a low price, is rarely a good deal.

The receivers in demo are being used 12 hours a day, seven days a week, for months. Just do the math and you will see how many hours they are getting, not even talking about the abuse the receive.

,

I can definatly see your point and agree to an extent. But also consider that of all the different brands of recievers, and all the different models in those brands at a specialty retailer the unit may be on "stand-by" more often than actually driving a set of speakers. Also some dealers may work other merchandise in with taking the reciever off their hands even at a good price. Factor those in with a warranty (ensure it is specified) and I would say picking up a reciever in good cosmetic condition with no dents (sign of a possible drop) may be worth a shot. Worst case scenareo its covered under warranty (again as long as its specified) or backed for a certain time by the actual retailer. I've purchased one b-stock unit, one demo unit, and one brand new unit. So far the brand new unit was the first to go belly-up...no amplification to the surround cannels. I'm sure others may have experienced the exact opposite and have had demo or b-stock units go sour, but as long as you cover all your ground and leave yourself an out I don't see the problem. Now to buy a demo unit just on good faith and an audition, thats a whole different story in which I think schwock5 meant with "rarely"

[westcott]

Does anyone own this model?

Harman Kardon 595W 7.1-Ch. A/V Home Theater Receiver

Model: AVR-247

If so do you like it? Pros and Cons

Im looking at getting the RF-82 Home Theater System and i am

looking at this model that I seen at Best Buy today. Is one better

than the other between Harman Kardon, Denon and Yamaha

Thanks

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[Beesley]

Anyone know how well the newer onkyo line mates with klipsch?