Q-Man Posted December 19, 2001 Share Posted December 19, 2001 I'm now using Yamaha's RX-V3000 & RX-V2092 receivers. I won't give them up, because I want a processor with front effect channels. I think both receivers sound great with my Klipschorns & LaScalas. They are dead quiet. The reason I may go with seperate power amps. is because I want to try Outlaws new Bass Manager. This crossover must go between a processor and power amp. . I'll use the RX-V3000 as the processor by use of it's pre-outs. The amps. below are the ones that I'm considering. McIntosh MC206, 6x200 at 4 Ohms, 6x120 at 8 Ohms McIntosh MC126, 6x120 at 4 Ohms, 6x80 at 8 Ohms Both are solid state. Circut configuration is Push-Pull complementary. ( what ever that is ) B&K Reference 7270, 7x200 at 8 Ohms B&K AV6125, 6x125 at 8 Ohms Both class A/B with B using Mosfet output stages. ( supposed to be tube like ) As a plus, maybe the total sound quality of the system will sound better with one of these amps. Any of you have any opinions on these amps, or at least opinions on McIntosh vs. B&K ? The McIntosh dealer says the Mac's will be better sounding . The B&K dealer can't give an opinion, because he has never heard any McIntosh. By the way, they are both Klipsch dealers. The Mac dealer is taking $1200.00 off the list price of the MC206 & $900.00 off the MC126. The B&K dealer will only come down $200.00 . It's not the power of these amps that concern me, but the higher power ones seem to have better specifications. The Mac dealer says that the higher power unit sounds better. Q. P.S. Second thought, maybe I should forget about bass management all together and just use more subs. ------------------ Q-Man This message has been edited by Q-Man on 12-19-2001 at 08:08 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 You may want to contact www.audioclassics.com and see if they either one of your final possible choices. Yes, they do carry used gear but most of the time it's hard to if it's new or not. Yes they will tell you if it is used. Good luck, p.s.- I would go with the Mac MC206, but then again I'm a little one sided about Mac stuff. Someday I will own an MC202 or an MC7200. ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany (Cornell Hotwired) McIntosh C33 Preamp McIntosh MVP-841 CD/DVD Rotel RB-1080 Amp Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Ortofon VMS-30 mkII Cartridge Stanton 999SS Cartridge Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 400mk II Monster Interlink 300mk II Monster Video 2 (DVD to TV) Monster Power HTS-5000 MIT Terminator 2 Bi-Wire Speaker cables Studio Tech U-48RW Cabinet Vibrapods Enough empty boxes for a fire hazard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 I would go with the McIntosh ...ANY DAY McIntosh all the way,the B&K is ok,the McIntosh is BETTER Smooth,detailed,classic design...retains its value well McIntosh Did I say McIntosh TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 i don't know i've been kinda eyeing that B&K 7270. but got the acurus 200X5 1st, then my B&K ref 30 pre/pro. doesn't the 7270 do 375W @ 4ohms (just about double the 8 ohm wattage) - i.e. more power/current (or as ears would say "grip") than the mac w/ an extra channel & a lower price to boot (imagine the 7270 being offered for around $2.5k but what's the big mac price?). i don't know mac well enough but didn't want it to be too 1 sided B&K makes some great stuff for the $. & that icbm looks like a great way to add bass mgmt for just around $250. yammy uses a fixed 90hz cross. that alone is a great reason to get a power amp w/ your speaks. u using a sub or just looking to route the lower bass to the khorns? ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 12-20-2001 at 04:31 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedbump Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 I have heard the McIntosh you mentioned with some big B&W's. I have not heard the B&K. The Mac made those big, beautiful, inefficient monsters sing so pretty I almost wanted them. I cannot imagine that the B&K would be better than the Mac. They (McIntosh) are known for build quality, and retention of value. The amps they build for home theater may not hold value like their tube stuff, or the big SS stereo or monoblocks, but for my money (if I had enough to afford it that is) I would go with Mac on reputation alone. Speed ------------------ Klipsch Chorus I Mains Klipsch Academy Center Klipsch Heresy I Surrounds Marantz SR19EX Receiver Yamaha 5 CD Changer Mitsubishi WS-55807 55" HDTV Playstation 2 for games/DVD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Let me be more direct and in your face... THE B&K is mass market compared to McIntosh The mas is a superb match for ANY quality Klipsch speakers. To compare McIntosh to B&K is like to compare Krell amps to Parasound amps.McIntosh and Krell by KO. Not open for debate TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Originally posted by TheEAR: Let me be more direct and in your face... THE B&K is mass market compared to McIntosh The mas is a superb match for ANY quality Klipsch speakers. To compare McIntosh to B&K is like to compare Krell amps to Parasound amps.McIntosh and Krell by KO. Not open for debate Nothing against Mac caus I got some but What Earmite really means is the Mcintosh cost more. That processes in his pea size brain that Mcintosh is superior and Now because B&K cost less they are mass market. LOL Anybody dumb enough to listen to EARwax should know the higher the price or image factor the higher he rates it LOL The B&K does have quite a bit more power and current than the MCintosh. The Mac has better "built" quality. go try them out at home, Are people getting so lazy with the NET they cant demo stuff anymore? LOL ------------------ go forth & hump the world This message has been edited by forresthump on 12-20-2001 at 04:45 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Oh Forrest, how I wish I lived in a town that didn't have a inbred view towards decent home audio. The only assumed hi-end joint in town is mid-end at best, and the salesmen are little punks with no knowledge beyond being what they are told to sell. That leaves a guy with low-end joints like Best Buy, Circuit City, Magnolia Hi-Fi. Hell, Magnolia Hi-Fi's Hi-end is low-end Krell. 'Ain't goin' there! The Supposed Hi-end joint doesn't even have any Valve amplifiers, Maybe, and if they do, the gear is WAY overpriced, I'm sure of that! So I have to drive to the west side of the state 400 miles to find any High-end Audio Dealers to listen to Demos. I agree with you, A guy needs to listen to the products. But you have to admit, the Net is a Hell of better Resource than some Bulls**t reveiw mag. I know there is good review mags but then you have find and buy them. A guy would be better off learning about Audio at the Library around here. pretty Lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted December 20, 2001 Author Share Posted December 20, 2001 I called 5 more Mac dealers today, at a distanse of 60 to 100 miles from my home. Non of them display and demo the amps that I'm interested in . One of them has a mac tube amp on his floor and says that it's no good . He said that I should come in and listen to the Bryston and Proceed amps. According to him these brands are much better then the mac's. If I insist, he will order me a Mac. I won't tell you what this guy thinks of Klipsch. The same goes for the other Mac dealers, They don't have any amps that you can demo. They will order you one, but you can't return it for another if you don't like it. I thought that I might order the Mc126 for $2800.00. If I didn't think it was quite right for me, I would bite the bullet and return it for the $4000.00 Mc206. No such luck! Only one of the dealers thinks that the Mc126's 80 watts per channel at 8 Ohms is enought to drive Klipschorns ans LaScalas. The others say that these speakers dip to much into the 3 Ohm range and this requires a lot of current from an amp. Therefore, I need the Mc206. I first found a guy on ebay that sells the Mc126 for $2150.00 and the Mc206 for $3300.00. He will take them back for repairs and pay for the shipping . This is so the local Mac dealers won't know that he is selling them in their territory. This sounded a little fishy, so I decided to buy from the authorized dealers. BUT, now that even the dealers won't let me return a mac, can't really answer my questions, can't demo one, and complained when I talked them down to the prices of $2800.00 & 4000.00, this first guy I spoke to looks rather good. Retail on these amps Is $3000.00 & $4700.00. I expected a lot more from a McIntosh dealer. Now I'm kind of back to square one. The B&K dealer will take the amp back if I don't like it. That's why I'm asking for opinions, no test drives here. I'll keep you posted. Q. ------------------ Q-Man This message has been edited by Q-Man on 12-20-2001 at 06:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted December 20, 2001 Author Share Posted December 20, 2001 boa12, I'm using a Sunfire Signature Sub. I pulled up some old pictures of my set up. Look under Odds and Mods (Q-Mans system) . Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 q, nothin against mac here either but why not take the B&K for a test drive? 7 channels, great power, smooth & should be good w/ a yammy as a pre, 5 yr vs 3 yr warranty, like mac made in the good ole usa. maybe even u could get them down to around 2k on it. i love the mac sound too. my main klipsch dealer is also mac but not b&k. but be sure to look at the best dealer offer price, not how much they mark down from that 2high to begin with msrp. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted December 20, 2001 Author Share Posted December 20, 2001 boa, The B&K list for $3300.00, the dealer will do $2800.00. How do you like that Manantz MA-6100 mono amp? I could get 6 Or 8 of them.I just looked it up in Sound & Vision's buyer's guide. What few specs. they have look good. I might try the B&K , One of the Mac dealers is calling me tomarrow with some answers to my questions. He has to call the main office to find out a few things. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 Q-Man Audio Classics will let you test drive anything they have for eleven days. If it dosen't raise an eyebrow then all your out is shipping both ways. ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany (Cornell Hotwired) McIntosh C33 Preamp McIntosh MVP-841 CD/DVD Rotel RB-1080 Amp Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Ortofon VMS-30 mkII Cartridge Stanton 999SS Cartridge Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 400mk II Monster Interlink 300mk II Monster Video 2 (DVD to TV) Monster Power HTS-5000 MIT Terminator 2 Bi-Wire Speaker cables Studio Tech U-48RW Cabinet Vibrapods Enough empty boxes for a fire hazard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted December 20, 2001 Share Posted December 20, 2001 q, actually the 6100 had a melt down - boxed up & ready to go back. guess there WAS something to that burnin smell just a bad unit i guess. if monoblocks u may want to look at the ma700. seen a few of those on clearance for around $250 ea. myself i'd definitely get a 6 or 7 channel amp now. be nice to have just 1 unit & power cord for all amplitude. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 21, 2001 Share Posted December 21, 2001 ForrestDumb, You never have anything to say,you only quote others and type BS.You are like a blind man who loves to talk about colors. McIntosh is not better then B&K because of price and built quality alone you thick skull. McIntosh makes smooth sounding amps and preamps and these match damn well with Klipsch speakers. B&K while quite smooth too is not at the same level,the McIntosh is almost grain free. I did listen and I did compare the best B&K has to offer with mid priced McIntosh.The Mac was more musical,better match with the Klipsches. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 I havent heard any of the new McIntosh gear or the new B&K but am quite familiar with both of these companies older gear. Personally, I thought the B&K was a more involving amp and a quarter of the price. Color me blind, but I have never really liked the McIntosh solid state amps. I always found them uninvolving musically and a bit ponderous. Yes, they are built like a tank... but so much of their reputation is word of mouth, a name that has carried forth from old, and some of their classic tube designs. TO me, the solid state Mcintosh, while offering a solid build, offers rather pedestrian sound with a not so pedestrian price. Their tube gear (which they are finally returning to again) can sound as good as the old. As for modern B&K, I think they are a whole different company from what they were 10 years ago...I sure dont think they offer the bargain they once did. Still, dont rule them out on price alone. Although, I think ole Forestpump was a wee bit harsh on ole Ear, he does make the good point that high price does not always mean good sound; in fact, sometimes it is the opposite. And thank sweet Yahweh for this... kh s y s t e m Linn LP-12/Linn Basic Plus/Sumiko Blue Point Rega Planet Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Creek OBH-12 Passive Preamp Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks DIYCable Wire - Various 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico Alternate Components: EICO HF-81 - btw, perfect Cornwall match ASUSA A-4 EL-34 UL ProAc Mini-Towers EICO HFT-90 Tube FM Tuner Sumo Aurora Tuner Nakamichi CR-7af>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 12-22-2001 at 06:21 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted December 22, 2001 Author Share Posted December 22, 2001 I've been doing a little more looking around, or should I say reading and calling. I think the days of showroom visits are gone, at least in my area. Most of the so called dealers that I've called are custom install places. They don't cary the product, they are authorized dealers and will order one for you. The few with showrooms have a very limited selection. I've broadened my search by checking into Parasound, Rotel, Power Modules, and Cinepro. Right now, Cinepro is looking rather good. Their web site is informative and I've found some good reviews on some of their amps. You can order factory direct with a 30 day trial period. They even offer a customer upgrade service to get you into a newer model. This also means they have refurbished units that they sell with a 2 year warranty. I'm going to call them today and I might order a 2K6 3 6x250 watt. I'm a little concerned about all that wattage, but this unit is the lowest wattage amp that they make. I may even order a refuurbished unit for about half the price of a new one. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Q-man, I've got 125 wpc amps and I'm concerned about that wattage, too. Maybe for different reasons, though. twenty years ago it was a common occurance that high power amps were dirty and noisy at low output. Soundcraftsman and the GAS Ampzilla were perfect examples. I don't know if modern amps exhibit the same traits, but I suspect they do, at least a little. try to listen to the Cinepro with the provision you can return it if you're not satisfied. Try to listen to Aragon amps. Though powerful, I believe all of them operate in Class A up to 10% or better of their rating and then Class AB up to their rated capacity. You should be able to buy Aragon for the price of McIntosh. I've listened to them on other speakers, but not my own. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted December 22, 2001 Share Posted December 22, 2001 Q-Man, Ah now we are talking,CinePro makes great amplifiers. I want to get their largest two channel SE power amp next year to drive the B&W Nautilus I saw for sale in a local audio shop.(shhht great price on there B&W's ) CinePro ams are alot like SVS subs,you pay where it counts not for extra built or looks. CinePro has earned my respect with their amps(I heard the multichannel HT amps and they sounded simply great) plus CinePro amps have massive power supplies and can drive ANY speakers you desire. CinePro I think would be the way to go here. Plus the CinePro service is A1,I emailed them and I had a repply the next day.Great amps and great service. What can I add more? Oh yes realistic down to eart prices too. Forget B&K and McIntosh,Aragon and company Plus the rave reviews they got from all who tested and reviewed them are another plus. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bean Posted December 26, 2001 Share Posted December 26, 2001 Hi Q-man, Here's another thought. I feel that there is more to this hi fi hobby than just sound. If your in the kilo buck level of equipment there is not much that sounds very bad. There is a lot of history and personality behind some of this equipment that could instill pride of ownership. Much equipment is very much the same but much is also unique in design and manufacture. Mac is very unique in its design, has a long interesting history and is probably unrivaled still today in build quality. Mac can really make you feel good. I sold a MR-78 tuner many years ago and really miss it. I found a dealer who has one and says it is not even for sale. When you do see them they are really expensive. BB This message has been edited by Big Bean on 12-26-2001 at 09:47 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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