Heresys as rear surrounds......what speaker height?

[steve hollowell]

I have a pair of LS II's for my front L/R, an RC-64 for my center and RT12-d sub.......I am in the process of getting a pair of Heresy III's as rear speakers.

Although I listen to a lot of two channel stereo I have a Sony PS III for Blueray disc that sound really good in DOLBY digital and DTS also I am really curious about how this new setup will sound in 5way stereo..........

Big question, my listening area is about eight feet from my rear speaker placement and the rears are six feet apart due to room limitations, and I know the Heresy is a floorstanding speaker, however would raising them up a foot or so do much to the sound? I now use a pair of Bose 901 Series IV for the back and they actually work "ok", but I really want an all Klipsh system and woul like to have the Heritage as my L/R in the front and back.

Any suggestions would be appreciated......

Thanks all.............................Steve

[IndyKlipschFan]

Steve,

You will lose some bass yes.. But you will also love the Hersies, becuase they will blend in great with your other equipment (La Scala's) too. Now in a 5.1 system they should be on the side walls to 20* behind you.. If you set the sides and or rears to small.. Not to worry at all... THX Specs at 80 Htz.

That being the THX idea... Also should be sprayed sound as well.. But WAIT>>>> this does not quite work for you.... Your using Heresies in a 5.1 setup. So plan "B"

Plan "B"

I suggest you look at your back right and left corners... Moving them in just a little so your in the ceter of the sound field... (this will give you depth, too, for concerts, and when things fly over they continue in the sound field to go sound wise long behind you....) So let's say your fronts are 12- 14 feet apart... make your rears 6- 10 feet apart behind you.. up above your seating level about 6- 8 feet (to the bottom of the speaker) depending on your seat hight and room height. (Some even turn the Heresey upside down, slightly tilted down too, so the tweeter is at the bottom.)

If you go 7.1, put the sides at the sides to your seating level up to 20*(degrees) behind you.. And put the rears close together behind your seating level. And of course have the sides n rears at the same height too.

You will be amazied at the outcome!

[Frzninvt]

Should be no problem Steve, I used mine inverted and perched atop my rear Klipschorn's so raising them some is no big deal at all.

Before I would invest in Heresy III's I would get the correct center for those LS II's though, that RC-64 will stick out like a sore thumb with pans across the front stage since it is not even a close timbre match.

[NCSharkDriver]

Exactly the setup I hope to build Steve. I will use a powered -12 sub for the 5.1 sub component, but also want to include a passive sub with the Heresy rear channels. With this in mind, I will place the rear channel sub ...wherever, and position the Heresys about 12-16 inches off the floor. This will place the tweeter and horn "just above the armrests" while leaving the practically unused woofer below direct line-of-ear. Any low frequency above the crossover threshold of the passive sub will get sent to the Heresy woofers though.

[IndyKlipschFan]

NC, "and position the Heresys about 12-16 inches off the floor. This will place the tweeter and horn "just above the armrests" while leaving the practically unused woofer below direct line-of-ear. Any low frequency above the crossover threshold of the passive sub will get sent to the Heresy woofers though."

no no no no get em off of the floor.. HIGHER... will give you depth...

[IndyKlipschFan]

FRZN.."Should be no problem Steve, I used mine inverted and perched atop my rear Klipschorn's so raising them some is no big deal at all. Before I would invest in Heresy III's I would get the correct center for those LS II's though, that RC-64 will stick out like a sore thumb with pans across the front stage since it is not even a close timbre match."

====================

I agree here ,too, your "home run" would be of course another La Scala.. I might suggest a Vertical Cornwall as a close second..(They make awesome center speakers and go almost as low as a K horn.) I use one between two k horns.. Never looked back!

Were trying to "guide you" so when something in front of you goes left to right... the sound is seamless.. left, center, to right. Less critical are your surrounds and rears.. but not forgotten of course. (Some crazy enthusiastic nutjobs who crave every last sound do the same speaker all around in many situations ... That is perfect Nirvana.... OK, A hem (almost guilty with 7 scalas playing here too in my own HT.)

I use the 525's as side surrounds.. turned to small.. (All 3 La Scala's up front and 4 in the rears...) it still blends in VERY nice.. if I had a 22- 24 foot room instead of 17' WIDTH wise, I might of considered La Scala's hung on the sidewalls for side surrounds too. hehehehehehe.

Roger

When your done, you will have a better sound system than 99.9999 of the theaters you will ever go into as well.

[steve hollowell]

Can't tell you all how much I appreciate your input......due to room limitations 5.1 is the thing, and at this point the RC-64 will be in my future for some time to come.....at one point I could possibly work in a Heresy as a center......

I'll be honored to post pictures here in about two weeks which I think will give me time to get it together and placed.......one other question....it probably won't happen for another year, but I have an office in our house that is about 16 1/2 X 17 with a 9ft ceiling.... you guys think this would be overkill in a room that size? I like movies loud but you think that is adequate space for this type of set up?

Once again thanks in advance for comments or suggestions.........

Steve

[steve hollowell]

Can't tell you all how much I appreciate your input......due to room limitations 5.1 is the thing, and at this point the RC-64 will be in my future for some time to come.....at one point I could possibly work in a Heresy as a center......

I'll be honored to post pictures here in about two weeks which I think will give me time to get it together and placed.......one other question....it probably won't happen for another year, but I have an office in our house that is about 16 1/2 X 17 with a 9ft ceiling.... you guys think this would be overkill in a room that size? I like movies loud but you think that is adequate space for this type of set up?

Once again thanks in advance for comments or suggestions.........However after reading the post from Indy K-Fan room size may not be an issue

Steve

[eq_shadimar]

Steve -

I have attached a picture of what I have done in my theater. I really enjoy the sound. Having them pointed into the corners gives me the best sound in my width limited theater. If my theater was wider and longer I would have placed them behind and to the sides a bit. I am happy with the height but I may actually increase that as well. As it stands I have terrific rear effects so something is working correctly [H]

Hope this helps you out!

Laters,

Jeff

[steve hollowell]

Thanks for the picture, its cool that the end result is great sound regardless of how you get there........It looks like I will get my Heresy III's on Mon of next week........at that point I want to try to get everything placed and do some pictures........I don't have a dedicated HT at this point, but I think I'll have the speakers to create a pretty good HT experience.

Thanks to all for suggestions and problem solving tips............

Steve

[Islander]

Most A/V receiver manuals recommend placing the surround speakers about six feet above the floor. Makes sense, since a lot of what they'll be asked to reproduce will be "fly-over" effects, echoes, thunder, applause, etc., all of which logically originate well above floor level. Besides, if your Heresies are on the floor, most of their sound will be aimed at the back of the sofa.

As for 5.1 versus 7.1, I'd say it depends on your layout and listening position. If you're relatively close to your back wall, 5.1 is all you need. If there's more than 6 to 8 feet of room behind you, it could make sense to consider adding rear surround speakers.

I'm using a pair of La Scalas as fronts, a Paradigm CC-370 as a center (but I'd like to eventually replace it with a single Scala or Belle) and a pair of Heresy IIs as surrounds. They're a really good timbre match for the Scalas and the two Heresies were an immediate improvement over the four smaller speakers I had been using.

The Heresy IIs are a similar distance from the listening position, but one is upright about 5 feet above the floor on a wooden box, while the other one is upright on a 6 foot tall bookcase, because that's the most straightforward setup in my room at present. I'm dubious about wall-mounting a 37-pound speaker and I haven't seen any 6 foot tall speaker stands. The ceiling is 8 feet high.

I originally had the Heresies pointing almost straight forward, but when I toed them in at 40-45 degrees, the midrange and highs became much clearer and the volume went up around 2 dB, making it easier to match levels with the front speakers. The sound is quite good now.

If your room dictates that your rear speakers can't be more than 6 feet apart, they should still sound pretty good.

[steve hollowell]

Thanks for your input.....I have seen some DIY plans for stands that could probable be safe at four to five feet in height,but when I do post some pictures you will see what I mean about limited options......I really am excited about the Heresy III's and would like to place them as well as possible under my circumstances......and as sweet as my wife is, I still want to try to keep things where she doesn't feel I've totally overpowered the room. It could be a close call!

I would like to go with Heritage in the center channel, but to be honest to my untrained ear the RC-64 is such a good speaker that I really am pleased with it, and once again it really fits my space.

Later....Steve

[j-malotky]

Mounting your rears over your listening position is important for rears.

What I did to get better bass out of my Heresy surrounds is to use the corner of the ceiling / wall. Angeling the Heresy to point to the sweet spot. Click on the URL to see picture from the forum photo section.

http://forums.klipsch.com/photos/the_klipsch_gallery/picture731615.aspx

JM

[mas]

Steve -

I have attached a picture of what I have done in my theater. I really enjoy the sound. Having them pointed into the corners gives me the best sound in my width limited theater. If my theater was wider and longer I would have placed them behind and to the sides a bit. I am happy with the height but I may actually increase that as well. As it stands I have terrific rear effects so something is working correctly [H]

[:|]As you like...

But I would definitely corner mount them in the upper corners angled dowbward with absorptive material behind and iimediately to the sides of the cabinets and then adjust the gain accordingly so as not to mask the front direct signals.

[eq_shadimar]

Mas -

Thanks for the comments. Right now I am very happy with the sound. All the speakers are crossed over at 80Hz so there is not really any bass issues that I need to corner load the speakers for. I want the reflections from the corners for the surround sound effects. However I am always open to suggestions and I am having a gathering at my house in August with fellow hornheads and this is one of the things we are going to play around with. I agree with your level matching comment. I have been balancing people's systems for many years with my dB meter and test discs. I get to constantly amaze people with how much better their system can sound with the proper bass crossover settings and level balancing. []

Laters,

Jeff

Steve -

I have attached a picture of what I have done in my theater. I really enjoy the sound. Having them pointed into the corners gives me the best sound in my width limited theater. If my theater was wider and longer I would have placed them behind and to the sides a bit. I am happy with the height but I may actually increase that as well. As it stands I have terrific rear effects so something is working correctly [H]

[:|]As you like...

But I would definitely corner mount them in the upper corners angled dowbward with absorptive material behind and iimediately to the sides of the cabinets and then adjust the gain accordingly so as not to mask the front direct signals.

[dtel]

Mounting your rears over your listening position is important for rears.

What I did to get better bass out of my Heresy surrounds is to use the corner of the ceiling / wall. Angeling the Heresy to point to the sweet spot. Click on the URL to see picture from the forum photo section.

http://forums.klipsch.com/photos/the_klipsch_gallery/picture731615.aspx

JM

Nice job there Mr Malotky [Y] , You have the most expensive home theatre seat I have ever seen, and you can take it out on the road too ! Nice job of combining two hobbies, just kidding, really nice bike there. Something I always wanted to try. Nice seeing you in Indy, maby next year again.

I use Forte ll's in almost the same way for rear's , I had originally wanted an all Heresy HT but found a good deal on 2 pair of Forte ll's and a pair of originally Fortes. I had no other choice for rear positioning, but it works well.

[mas]

All the speakers are crossed over at 80Hz so there is not really any bass issues that I need to corner load the speakers for. I want the reflections from the corners for the surround sound effects.

Corner mounting is not for bass room gain. It is for complimenting the polar response and minimizing the reflections and resulting acoustic anomalies! You already have a processed multi-channel signal! You do not need to create reflections unless you simply like the results of the signal superposition based upon radically corrupted time response such as comb filtering and and the resultant goofy polar response and reduced intelligibility.

In fact, as the on axis mid/high signal is reflected back into the speaker itself, all you are dealing with is a compendium of defracted and reflected signals whose phase and alignment contribute to reduced intelligibility. Exactly what Bose created with their direct-reflecting signal topology, albeit without the benefit of a direct signal.

This is exactly counter to everything we try to do in not only designing a coherent source, but in also treating the room. And test tones, an RTA, and equalization in the frequency domain does not correct fundamental room anomalies.

But you are of course free to do whatever you like. []

[eq_shadimar]

Corner mounting is not for bass room gain. It is for complimenting the polar response and minimizing the reflections and resulting acoustic anomalies! You already have a processed multi-channel signal! You do not need to create reflections unless you simply like the results of the signal superposition based upon radically corrupted time response such as comb filtering and and the resultant goofy polar response and reduced intelligibility.

Err I guess hehe [] Seriously though I did have the speakers turned around the proper way and found the surround effects seriously lacking. I think it sounded better the way they are now...shrug...so who knows.

In fact, as the on axis mid/high signal is reflected back into the speaker itself, all you are dealing with is a compendium of defracted and reflected signals whose phase and alignment contribute to reduced intelligibility. Exactly what Bose created with their direct-reflecting signal topology, albeit without the benefit of a direct signal.

This is exactly counter to everything we try to do in not only designing a coherent source, but in also treating the room. And test tones, an RTA, and equalization in the frequency domain does not correct fundamental room anomalies.

But you are of course free to do whatever you like. []

Interesting comments and I had actually thought of the Bose comparision myself when I turned them around. That is what gave me the idea in the first place. I agree that room treatment plays a major part in the total quality of sound in a room. I will keep these suggestions in mind when have have all the golden ears over in August. I will make sure that we play around with the placements.

Laters,

Jeff