LarryC Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 This is looking westward, up what I believe is Crandall Canyon, where the current mine disaster is taking place well underground. You can see the extraordinary terrain these things are dug into. The outside entrance area of what I believe is the Crandall Canyon mine is visible at the bottom center. The elevation at that location is about 8,000', and the mountain in the background rises to around 11,000'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted August 11, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 11, 2007 It sure does look like the entrance from the pics we have seen on TV. Does anyone have an updated status on the miners? The family has the TV occupied playing the Wii. They are working on Midnight Golf again.....or is it Midnight Bowling? Anyway I haven't heard any of the news today so I was just wondering if there were any updates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Our hearts and prayers goes out to the family of these Miners........God Bless them All....Hope for the Best !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted August 12, 2007 Author Share Posted August 12, 2007 It sure does look like the entrance from the pics we have seen on TV. Does anyone have an updated status on the miners? The view from directly above is even more recognizable -- if your computer has Google Earth, look up Huntington, UT, and go NW to 39 deg. 27' N and 111 deg. 10' W. It looks like any more news will have to wait on digging through the rubble, perhaps taking a week more at the current rate. News crews are probably packing up and clearing out. It seems to me they were very efficient and quick to bring in lots of rescue/recovery resources. An 8,000' road built right away and initial drilling equipment helicoptered in, rock poles to rebuild a rescue tunnel, etc. Quite a contrast with Katrina. I wonder who does that? The federal mine safety outfit and the state of Utah? I wouldn't think the owner could do it by himself, though they sure put him front and center. EDIT: http://www.msha.gov/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 Is it true about 300+ safety violations at that same mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Don't know about safety violations. Still drilling...third hole now. Good luck guys[Y]! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Safety violations? It's like the Spanish Inqusition, they get paid by confiscating the assets of the people they find guilty (hint: if you're breathing, you're guilty). One of the reported violations was being out of TP in the rest rooms. OSHA is the same way. They busted my company for using extension cords made with hospital grade parts. The fine was $7000 per cord found (you think I'm kidding?). They told us to use those $4 cheesy plastic breaker bars like you buy at Home Depot (that start smoking when you run any current through them). Then they tell you that you owe $7M in fines, and then you 'negotiate'. Crandall is 'negotiating' on an old mine he recently bought that had over 2800 'violations' against it, and millions in fines. The only difference between a government regulatory agency and Jessie James, is Jessie James had a gun. 9 out of the last 13 years Crandal has been in the top 50% of mines with problems. That means that 31% of the time his mines are in the %50 of the ones with the lowest problems. Statistics can be manipulated to say what ever you want them to say. Coal mining is dangerous. It also presents the EPA with some of its biggest radiation clean-up problem, mine tailings from producing western low sulphur coal are radioactive! (some of the 'hot' tailings are from mines that have been closed 100 years or more) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Good points, stats can say anything. Sorry I fell for the media talking heads. I'm much better off if I just avoid the news altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 All that other stuff doesn't matter right now..............The Miner's are Top Priority....Hope and Pray they are alright !!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Who cares about those guys, they're just uneducated laborers. They need to find some more people and get to producing that coal so that the rest of us can sit in our air conditioned offices and surf the net while we're at work, and bitching about how much money those uneducated laborers earn. I mean, we really earn our keep ! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted August 16, 2007 Share Posted August 16, 2007 Starting to look bad, time is running out...........What a way to make a living........Still hoping for the best.......Fingers crossed !!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nu2toobs Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 The mine caved in tonight on the rescue team and it killed at least one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted August 17, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 17, 2007 OMG[:S] It only gets worse. I was hoping after last nights "sounds from within" this story would have a little happier update today! This is really sad![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Again, three more die in rescue attempt............Those are some Brave Americans too........It's so sad such a thing could happen.......again, Thoughts and Prayers go out to Family, Friends, and Rescue Workers.............God's Speed My Friends......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted August 17, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 17, 2007 OB, you are right...such a sad thing....these guys made the ultimate sacrifice....they gave their lives trying to rescue thier fallen brothers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 How would you like to make the call to Stop Rescue Attempt, or to go on ? Tough Call, alot of Soul Searching there.....Hero's, Comrades, Brothers, Family, it all means the same...............God Bless Them All..........What a tragedy........Hug Your Family TODAY !!!!!!!!!!!.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigStewMan Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 not an easy call to make. my boss in the coast guard had to make a decision to call off a search many times. i'm sure it wasn't easy. one time, two small planes collided over the port of los angeles--five people missing. family, friends, and unfortunately the media started showing up at our office. we hadn't called off the search; but we knew that the chances of finding a survivor at that point (well after the crash) was zero. I had to escort the elderly mother and other family members into our office (trying to keep them away from the media vultures--and when they saw me they grabbed their cameras and came running). it was very difficult to hear this sweet old lady ask me, with some hope still in her voice, "have you found my son yet?" not a fun time at the office that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 So, I guess it's over, men buried in the mountain, such a shame, such a waste of human life, Rest in Peace Miners. As soon as the News coverage stops, they'll be forgotten, and the Brittany's and Paris's of the world can have TV time back................[bs]....[bs]....[bs] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted August 20, 2007 Moderators Share Posted August 20, 2007 OB, with sadness I know you are right. It just seems so unfair to all.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted August 20, 2007 Author Share Posted August 20, 2007 It was unfair. Today's Washington Post article, Many Pressures Led to Cave-In, details how Geological forces, economics and lax safety rules all contributed to the disaster. The owner, Robert Murray, a fierce opponent of mine regulation, was doing an even more dangerous version of "retreat mining" by removing the larger "barrier pillars" between sections as well as pillars between the cuts. One reporter described it as "swiss-cheesing" the mountain. Leaving those barriers intact was critical given an unbelievably massive 2,000' of mountain overburden weighting down the mine roof. Murray was trying to get as much lucrative coal out as possible. The Mine Safety and Health Administration co-enabled Murray's dangerous retreat mining technique -- you'll note that a MSHA Assistant Secretary constantly appeared with Murray in the TV press conferences, and MSHA had approved what Murray was doing. This will bring greater scrutiny to MSHA in the coming months. Previous federal mine officials have noted that the Bush administration had moved MSHA from regulation to "compliance assistance," i.e., choosing to not enforce some rules. Going too far in being business-friendly has mousetrapped an occasional Republican administration, as it appears to have done here. My feeling is that Murray and MSHA were trying desperately trying to cover their tail by trying to rescue the miners from the deadly situation they had put them in (Murray probably also didn't want to lose visibility as an anti-regulation figure). It caught up with them in the almost inevitable second cave-in. Gov. Huntsman (whom I find impressive) was right to call a halt to it, and observers said he looked angry. I would think so. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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