Richard C. Heyser's Klipschorn review

[Arkytype]

Neil,

Thanks for your post---it is easier to read than mine. Now, everyone save this .pdf to their hard drive for the next time someone needs it.

Lee

[sputnik]

..........We

don't hear the onset of all frequencies simultaneously. It takes a minimum

number of completed cycles of a tone to be defined enough for processing and

perception of it. Lower frequency tones take longer to hear when they begin. In

the time it takes a 40Hz wave to complete just one cycle a 400Hz wave beginning

at the same time will complete 10 cycles, a 4000Hz wave 100 cycles. So in

essence, we naturally hear different frequencies after variable delays, the

lower the slower........

No.......

.......And various wavelengths/frequencies do not have different velocities! ...........

Just a minor point, but this caught me before my morning coffee. In a dispersive medium, velocity is

dependent on frequency. For a normally dispersive medium, the lower

frequencies will travel faster than higher frequencies. For a

non-dispersive medium, velocity is not dependent on frequency. Air is considered a non-dispersive medium for audio range wavelengths.

[kev313]

What caps are you guys using in your active crossovers?

[ZAKO]

I,m surprised at the Inteligencia "know it alls" here that espouse all knowledge speaker design. Time to take them to the wood shed...and ask them to fabricate the ULTIMO speaker....They cant.. I know one that has left the forum and is still weeping and knasshing his teeth at the Audiokarma site....maybe others should join and help in the dance.

[jacksonbart]

In the Star Trek Universe they solved all time allignment issues back on episode 26, it was right up there with the creation of the warp drive in Star Trek significance. I can't wait. Until then I am just going to sing in the shower.

[mas]

Dr. Who ..

You should find it interesting that R. Heyser states the KH bass bin .. needs 8ms alignment ..

didn't we always talk 7 ms...?? in the Ball Park, baby ..[]

The real trick would have been dialing it in by ear. []

By ear??

...Bunch of freakin' Luddites!

Nothing Luddite about it. If there is an audible difference, then one will be able to hear the difference and line it up by ear. Granted it's easier to do with the proper tools, but if it is outside the realm of being able to do it by ear, then why bother in the first place? I say it all rhetorically because I've heard the differences that can be made, but the implication of it being audible is absolutely important.

"If there is an audible difference, then one will be able to hear the difference and line it up by ear."

Wrong.

So your hearing exceeds the limitations of the 'Haas effect'? While the multiple arrivals are NOT able to be distinguished as distinct individual signals, they still result in a fundamental loss of intelligibility!

So, no, you can't resolve it audibly, but yes, it does have a negative audible effect.

And I can't believe that you missed the completely over the top response regarding the SPL meter and the RTA. But debate the point is you like.

[mas]

I,m surprised at the Inteligencia "know it alls" here that espouse all knowledge speaker design. Time to take them to the wood shed...and ask them to fabricate the ULTIMO speaker....They cant.. I know one that has left the forum and is still weeping and knasshing his teeth at the Audiokarma site....maybe others should join and help in the dance.

It is easily within our capability to make a significant improvement in the design of the speakers with significant acoustical origin offsets.

Using a passive crossover fails to do this. Using and active crossover with signal alignment does.

The ULTIMO speaker? What good would that do when you can't seem to fathom the simple benefit of the remediation of a configuration where early room reflections arrive earlier than the direct signal of one of the drivers?

But if such a complex concept is so confusing, the easiest solution is to discard the entire time domain and everything that Heyser postulated. Such a simple solution in your quest for the ULTIMO speaker. Rather than become aware of additional issues, we simply stick our heads in the sand and wella, the problems are solved.

Ignorance is indeed bliss. And those who are willfully ignorant, it sounds like they would be a great help to the other genius who is over on AudioKarma....at least they could relate.

Oh, and since you are the one making accusations, who here "espouse(s) all knowledge (of) speaker design"?

[jacksonbart]

Maron - I think MAS may have just called you ingnorant. The nerve of some people.

I stopped sticking my head in the sand a few years ago, I found I had difficulty breathing, especially at high tide.

[bodcaw boy]

I,m surprised at the Inteligencia "know it alls" here that espouse all knowledge speaker design. Time to take them to the wood shed...and ask them to fabricate the ULTIMO speaker....They cant.. I know one that has left the forum and is still weeping and knasshing his teeth at the Audiokarma site....maybe others should join and help in the dance.

hey maroni,

i know the tango and polka.....cha cha cha!![8-|]

have a blessed day,

roy

[DrWho]

So, no, you can't resolve it audibly, but yes, it does have a negative audible effect.

I propse that if there is a "negative audible effect", then one can simply turn the dial until that "negative audible effect" goes away.

[bodcaw boy]

In the Star Trek Universe they solved all time allignment issues back on episode 26, it was right up there with the creation of the warp drive in Star Trek significance. I can't wait. Until then I am just going to sing in the shower.

please wear clothes....

have a blessed day,

roy

[mas]

"espouse

Maron - I think MAS may have just called you ingnorant. The nerve of some people.

I stopped sticking my head in the sand a few years ago, I found I had difficulty breathing, especially at high tide.

If I had wanted to call Maron "ignorant" done so, I would have. But since you seem to know less about what we are talkking about other than simply making the usual sarcastic smart @ss comments (which evidently no one else is allowed to make), you might want to figure out what you are talking about...including learning to spell the word "ignorant".

What is even more arrogant, are erudite folks who lack a knowledge not only what Heyser was talking about. but also a self-professed ignorance of behavior in the time domain, who discard what Heyser postulated, observed, and quantified. The nerve of some people...

And while I never said Maron was ignorant, I will maintain that he made a false allegation. As no one to my knowledge has made any claim whatsoever that they "espouse all knowledge (of) speaker design."

But Heyser does identify a correctable problem that seems to confuse half of the folks while the other half haven't a clue as to what he said and what he proposed in the way of practical application.

[mas]

So, no, you can't resolve it audibly, but yes, it does have a negative audible effect.

I propse that if there is a "negative audible effect", then one can simply turn the dial until that "negative audible effect" goes away.

Sounds fascinating. So why are you messing with a computer and measurement software when all you need is a click track?

[DrWho]

So, no, you can't resolve it audibly, but yes, it does have a negative audible effect.

I propse that if there is a "negative audible effect", then one can simply turn the dial until that "negative audible effect" goes away.

Sounds fascinating. So why are you messing with a computer and measurement software when all you need is a click track?

Way to miss the point. You missed Maron's point too - and your reply is vastly interesting in light of the fact that he runs his khorns with an active crossover! []

[mas]

So, no, you can't resolve it audibly, but yes, it does have
a negative audible effect.

I propse that if there is a "negative
audible effect", then one can simply turn the dial until that "negative
audible effect" goes away.

Sounds fascinating. So why are you
messing with a computer and measurement software when all you need is a
click track?

Way to miss the point. You missed Maron's point
too - and your reply is vastly interesting in light of the fact that he
runs his khorns with an active crossover! []

Nope. No more than using a timing light to adjust a non-fuel injected engine is more advantageous than simply listening to the sound of the engine, or using higher resolution measuring time based equipment is advantageous to simply employing the equivalent of an SPL meter in a range wherein the limitations of the ability to resolve individual signals in a complex environment comprised of multiple signals has been reached; but where the loss of intelligibility is still audible. There is no assumption that there are only two signals to be resolved!

And it doesn't matter what Maron uses. His allegation was still false. And go back and discover who was "willfully ignorant"... But its interesting that both you and Jackson both seem to assume the reference was to Maron...

[Coytee]

GEE, Whatever happened to Just Listening to Music ?????

Gots to have Jubilees now before you can be such a simpleton!

[]

Simpleton .................... OUCH !!! ................. Uncalled for ............. BAN COYTEE NOW

Uh...er... I was suggesting that it is the Jubilee owners that are the simpletons...after all, you've got me (what else need be said?), Mike, Dean, Bill, Bob, 6foot8 (though he's a TALL one []), Ralph, Bob (what is it about Bobs?) and we're not even touching those who have the clones yet... Mark, Marion....(I forget who all has clones)

yep..... looks like a simple crowd to me!

[Mike Lindsey]

mas... of all the tools that have come and gone here, I think you might possibly be the biggest one. I think it's quite evident that you know a lot about speakers, acoustics, and how to tune a car, and that you have a lot to add to this Forum (certainly more than I), but it's the way you say it that makes you so untolerable.

This place is and always has been about the people, more than anything else it has to offer. You, however, have no respect for anyone but yourself. Please do us all a favor and grow up a little bit before you open your mouth again (or in this case put it in writing).

Personally, I'm glad you're still here... whenever I feel like cracking a few skulls at home, I'll just read a couple of your posts first to get me in the mood.

Mike

[oldbuckster]

What difference does it make what someone writes....the final result is what you hear.....and frankly, no one can tell me what I hear. Mr. Heyer's review is just his opinion, a respected opinion, from a respected reviewer, but his opinion none the less.

[mas]

mas... of all the tools that have come and gone here, I think you might possibly be the biggest one. I think it's quite evident that you know a lot about speakers, acoustics, and how to tune a car, and that you have a lot to add to this Forum (certainly more than I), but it's the way you say it that makes you so untolerable.

This place is and always has been about the people, more than anything else it has to offer. You, however, have no respect for anyone but yourself. Please do us all a favor and grow up a little bit before you open your mouth again (or in this case put it in writing).

Personally, I'm glad you're still here... whenever I feel like cracking a few skulls at home, I'll just read a couple of your posts first to get me in the mood.

Mike

The irony is that for all but a few who indeed are more than an avatar, it is about the ideas. And you have little real meaning to me, just as I have no meaning to you. And its amazing how many have no problem with challenging something I say, yet you suddenly whine about it being about the people or some other empty principle if I dare reverse the challenge. But then again I really don't feel the need to become 'close' to folks who "feel the need to crack a few skulls at home". But I do feel sorry for the 'folks at home'...Yup, its all about the people.

And how much do you want to bet that you, like many others, completely

miss the intended humor in many of my posts and subsequentlymisinterpret the meaning?

And what is amazing, is that there are some who, despite often admitting little or no knowledge of a topic or subject, persist in then attempting to discredit it. And this has happened repeatedly to issues regarding such topics as to acoustical behavior within the time domain and to what Dick Heyser wrote. If one wishes to remain ignorant of such topics, that's fine. But how about refraining from then turning about and attempting to discredit or diminish the ideas based solely upon one's ignorance of them or of other more basic acoustical facts?

The fact is, you don't know me, and your sole communication with me is an attack. I guess it must simply be one of those people skills to which you alluded...

And the original fact is that the significant signal offsets in the acoustical centers is a real objective problem. You can choose to understand why, or you can ignore it. But it does not change the fact. And it can be corrected in large measure with signal delay and an active crossover. .I'm sorry if that presents a problem to some.

[Tom Adams]

You know......it's just an observation......but the 2-Channel audio forum is like "The Young And The Restless" soap opera.

You can be away from the soap opera for like a year. And in one 30 minute episode, you can catch up on everything that happened in a year.

And so it is here........

Leave this place for a year, come back for a visit, read about 4 or 5 threads and you're caught up. LOL........

Tom