Calling all Khorn experts!

[GWSmith]

Hello Jeff.

Sounds like you got GOOD help with your K'Horns. As you probably have seen by my two topics (photos and questions about High freqs. with my 1968 K'Horns) I have been hearing from different members on this.

I was wondering how the high frequencies are on yours... Its pretty disappointing when a factory stock stereo running EQ controls `FLAT' in a newer Ford Explorer has more high end then my beloved K'Horns pushing the preamp treble to the MAX ! etc..

Glad you are liking the sound of yours. Take some photos and post, I sure have []

Truly,

Gary

[wallflower]

Gary,

I'm certainly no expert, but I'm pretty sure something is wrong with either your cross-over networks, wiring or tweeters.

The high frequency from my Khorns is great. Things are very good in Khorn land for me right now.

Good luck!

[Deang]

I'm thinking what Bob said in the other thread makes the most sense. The only thing I would add is to make absolutely sure the tweeters are working. People have sworn they were, and later found out they weren't. I prefer to disconnect the midrange drivers. It only takes a couple of minutes and removes all doubt.

[mark1101]

Update report...

After several more critical listening sessions I want to report that toeing the speakers in has effectively eliminated the harshness I was experiencing with my Khorns. They really do sound like different speakers. There just seems to be more synergy with the system. The imaging is so much more precise and yet without a reduction in the soundstage. I've found I can really enjoy listening to music that I previously thought was totally annoying on the Khorns. I'm also able to listen and enjoy at pretty significant SPL levels. Previously I've never been able to get good piano recordings to sound right on this system, but now they sound excellent. For some reason my piano recordings sound better on the Khorns than on my La Scalas. Any thoughts as to why that might be?

Anyway, things are much improved and I'm very happy. Thanks all for your input!!

Jeff

So all the problems you described (harshness, tunnel/cave sound, lascalas sound better at higher volumes).......all gone now by simply towing in the top sections? Time will tell.

Wow. It wish it had been that easy for me.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Jeff,

Glad the 60th type backs was a great mod your happy with! I am too.

Roger

[HDBRbuilder]

Mark, et.al.

Keep in mind that Jeff didn't have to toe in the top-hat sections of his K-horns, because his k-horns effectively have a false corner attached. Therefore he was able to toe-in the complete speaker to where it worked best for him while still retaining the cosmetic aesthetics of the units.

For folks who are limited to use of the room corners for their K-horns, this isn't done so easily, and would likely require a change in listening position (if possible within the parameters of the room) in order to accomplish the same effect without moving the tophat portions of the k-horns.

Once again, by using a three-speaker stereo array, lots of these kinds of hassles are more easily solved.

Andy

[mark1101]

I will stick to my comments on the first page. I think once Jeff hears more and different types of music, different vinyl, different CDs, etc......he will find he basically did not correct the problem.......just a prediction.

It's the same thing as putting a LaScala on a table as opposed to the floor where it can fire into the furniture and other room decor. You can not achieve the same performance by simply pointing the thing a different way. It requires a change of electronics.

[Deang]

Yup.

[HDBRbuilder]

Dean, Mark,

I agree that he needs to get the K-horns onto the floor and off of those wheels. I also agree that if he changes out his networks to AA models instead of what he currently has in the K-horns, his K-horn performance will improve/be more like his LaScala performance, which he likes. I was just trying to point out that Jeff has the option of toeing his entire K-horns' cabinets due to the false corner which the backs of his K-horns effectively give him, whereas, those without that option have more difficulty getting the desired results.

Andy

[mark1101]

Andy,

Point well taken on the placement issues. I wish I had the 60th backs on mine too. Definitely more flexibility.

[wallflower]

Mark,

I've listened to the Khorns (in the new toed in position) with a broad selection of my music (hard rock, jazz, classical, 70's classic rock (LP and CD)) and I cannot get that nasty sound to reappear. I've turned it up as loud as I can stand it and I just don't hear the harsh, tunnelly sound that I heard before. It's really stunning to me how toeing the speakers in has so dramatically altered the sound of these speakers. I'm finally hearing what I thought all along I should be hearing from Khorns (only it's a lot better than I expected). I couldn't be happier with the sound improvement!!

Cheers!

[Erland]

What a fine thread with so much advise and experience. I have learned a lot by reading through it!.

Thanks!

Last year some of you may remember that I posted a thread with a sequence of pictures and experiences from building and installing a pair of DIY khorns.

Summary:
As I believe in the original woofer section without the 60th ani. modification (and have corners to place the horns in), I built my horns without this mod.

Under the woofers, I glued a solid piece of 2mm thick natural rubber. When placed on a wooden floor, the speakers literally suck themselfes to the floor. The only way to moove them, is to tilt and get some low friction material under the rubber. Recommended!

As you see on the picture, I made the top section as a seperate piece not tied to the woofers. The top section stands on Soundcare titanium superspikes to reduce vibration.
The internal xo's is again placed on 15 mm thick anti vibration mats.

xo's are Alkeng ES 400/5800, All the capacitors are bypassed by a Vishay Rodenstein 0.01uF/100V cap. This is a tweak Tony Gee has come up with and it adds speed and clarity to networks. Woofer K33E, Mid driver K55V - mid horn Alkeng trachorn, Tweeter Crites C125. Internal cables 2.0 mm cryothreated 99.99% silver.

Does it work?
OOOOOOyes!

What's the advantage of a loose top section?
In my opinion;

That one can let the woofer take full advantage of the rooms cornes and angles, and still control the soundstage. My experience are in line with what most of the others heres writes.
I have aimed the top section slightly in front of my listening position (that means toed out a bit more than the 45 deg of the wooferhorn. The result of this was a much deeper and wider but yet more precise soundstage. On good live recordings one can not only place the musicians in the wide perspective, but also notice how they move backwards and forwards on the stage.

Conclution:I love my khorns!

I am not saying;
"Go and rip your khorns to pieces and rebuild them, but hopefully some of my experiences may help you to get the best out of your horns.

I notised someone had a comment regarding choice of capacitors earlier;
When building the ALK xo's I stuck to Al's recommended parts list and choose Solen caps. First of all because I find it sensible to start of with the designers recommodation, but also because the high number of large caps would have made the xo's extreemely expensive by using highend caps like Duelund or AudioNote. I will go there eventually, but there are other upgrades that will gain more to my system at this stage.

[GWSmith]

Nicely done Erland, nicely done! Did you pretty much leave the folded bass horn in tact and add the new front? Your mid horn looks very tall, wide yet shallow, what is it actually ? Looks like you are in a log home??

Ok, I just wrote Bob Crites and I am going to have to replace my old tweeters with the CT-125's as well, and midrange driver diaphragms need to be changed out! I discovered just this evening that my left K'Horn has a buzz in the mid horn. Took the driver off, hooked it back up while in the palm of my hand and played the same passage on the CD. Same noise coming directly from the mouth of the driver [:'(]

Well, as a new owner of this early pair, I can say it will be nice to have some high end response coming from them soon!

Warmly,

Gary

[mark1101]

Mark,

I've listened to the Khorns (in the new toed in position) with a broad selection of my music (hard rock, jazz, classical, 70's classic rock (LP and CD)) and I cannot get that nasty sound to reappear. I've turned it up as loud as I can stand it and I just don't hear the harsh, tunnelly sound that I heard before. It's really stunning to me how toeing the speakers in has so dramatically altered the sound of these speakers. I'm finally hearing what I thought all along I should be hearing from Khorns (only it's a lot better than I expected). I couldn't be happier with the sound improvement!!

Cheers!

Wallflower,

If you are happy then that is all that matters.

[Erland]

Nicely done Erland, nicely done! Did you pretty much leave the folded bass horn in tact and add the new front? Your mid horn looks very tall, wide yet shallow, what is it actually ? Looks like you are in a log home??

Warmly,

Gary

Gary,

The Bass horns are a DIY-copy of the Khorn. On the front board I put a layer of birch veneer - then put three layers of chestnut woodstain.

The mid horns are as as wrote Al Klappenbergers Trachorn (made of layers of plywood with some dampening material between). The depth are similar to the K401 but the shape and size are perfectioned to the frequency of the mid driver. For the sides of the top section, I made a "sceleton" of precisely cut plywood pieces that I covered with loudspeaker cloth.

As you can see, I gave a lot of room for the tweeter. The reason for this, are that it will give me room to try out different tweeter types without rebuilding my entire top sections.

The C125 tweeter from Bob Crites are indeed a good tweeter. Some time in the future I have intentions of trying the very fine GOTO tweeters, and eventually a complete set of drivers from GOTO. I will spare no cost or effort to get the best out of this horns!

The ongoing upgrade-project are only indirectly related to the khorns. I am building new valve amps. As for the horns, a lot of thinking, investigating and planning has taken place, and the internal components are selected for its quality only.

I will take pictures as the project proceeds, and I will post a thread on this forum for the "tube amp freaks" to see how my black 4-box 300B amplifiers was born.

My home -

Yes, I am living in Norway, and the the house are 107 years old and it's made of logs. When moving there the logs was covered with several layers of boards and faded wallpaper, but we took it all off in some of the rooms, sanded the logs and painted them. It gives a cozy atmosphere, and I believe that the uneven shape of the walls has a positive effect on sound reflections.

Best

Erland

[IndyKlipschFan]

Jeff,

I'm glad you got the same feeling I did when completed..

Paul at one time also included a sealed back.. (Some need to be reminded of that as well.)

It is an amazing modification, and if it is good enough for the 60th Klipschorns, I am sure on my 89's, it is good enough for me too.

Roger

[wallflower]

Roger,

I couldn't agree more. With all due respect, my guess is with the exception of a very few implementations, nearly all Khorn applications could benefit from either false corners or 60th Anniversary style backs. It stands to reason that unless you have perfect corners (i.e. a perfect seal with the corners of the room, combined with reinforced walls (concrete, 3/4' plywood, etc...) Khorns would probably be dramatically enhanced by false corners or the addition of the backs. Even with the backs added to my speakers I've still reinforced the wall with 3/4" plywood (per PWK specs for the false corner). I noticed that unless I had the reinforcement, the standard drywall had tremendous flex from the bass wave coming out of the Khorn.

Thanks again for your input Roger!

Jeff

[IndyKlipschFan]

[IndyKlipschFan]

It worked for me too.

[wallflower]

Thanks again Roger!! Your input and pictures made the project much more straightforward.

Jeff