ka7niq Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 ------Well, this IS an old thread, and all the CF series speakers are long gone, cause I get bored with stuff pretty easy, and I am a Ham Radio Operator. I needed money for my Ham Radio Hobby, and sold a lot of my stuff. The CF 4 Series 1 speakers are ones I wish I had kept. Right now, I have a pair of these little bastards, and they are stupid good, especially if you are anal about speech reproduction. Watching TV with these is a whole new experience, only my old B&W Matrix 801's could equal, but not beat these on reproduced voice. These image all over the place, and are very very musical. No, they will not bust the walls down, but they are what I have right now, and I am very happy with them. Remember, I am a Ham, and more into that hobby right now. I found an open box brand new pair of these on Ebay for 199.00. They also make larger versions with 6 1/2 and 8 inch woofers. I will never suggest a speaker I have not lived with, but these 5 1/2 inch Fostex PM 05MkII's are just incredible. I have not heard the larger ones. They have their own built in amps, and use electronic crossovers, with very good drivers made just for these speakers. All you do is run interconnects from your preamp to them, and enjoy. BTW, Fostex made the woofers in the CF Series for Klipsch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubdog Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Ok I bought the Parasound. What are the odds that the one recommended would just happen be available on Audiogon. Let's hope it works out as good as advertised. Of course I will update this thread when I get it. cubdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 You are fixing to be one happy Camper, when you get it all set up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Do yourself a favor and obtain a copy of the schrmatic and the parts list. You may want to have it worked on at some point. Hope it works out for you. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gagelle Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Moyay understands the CF-3s better than anyone I know. His various solutions to equalize the sound and tame the horn's sharpness really work. I would bi-amp my own if I had the money for another amplifier. My son is using them now and you can hear the resonance when he plays the music loud. One unexpected adjustment that improved the sound quality was a correct alignment of his phono cartridge. It is surprising how much more balanced the music sounds. It really almost eliminated a certain tinny, sharpness in the music reproduction. Since the music sounds more "full," he doesn't have to make it as loud. I"ve read about the importance of cartridge alignment but never experienced the radical difference in sound quality of a correctly aligned cartridge. I've also noticed with CDs, that a well mastered piece of music will sound wonderful through the CF-3s. As an example, I'll use the CD that came with the "Aqualung" box set. It doen't sound sharp or fatiguing. I'm also amazed that I hear instruments and sounds that I've never heard on any other mix of that album. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Roy Delgado told me when I owned the CF 3, to look for a CF 4 Version 1. Not only would I gain 3 db efficiency Roy said, but he also said the crossover in CF 4 was smoother then in the CF 3! My ears agree totally with what Roy told me, years ago. I have owned both the CF 3 series 2 and CF 4 series 1 Though I like them both, I liked the CF 4 version 1 best of all. The CF 4 version 1 I can live with, w/o it being biamped, though it still sounds best biamped. The CF 3 is another story! IMHO, that speaker MUST be biamped to sound it's best, as the guy here who plans to do so will soon find out. Being able to control the levels of the horns is a huge advantage. For the very best recordings, run the horns flat, or, if you have level controls on both the woofer and tweeter amps, you can actually run the horn slightly hotter, and wow all your audio buddies with a super detailed sound. But for the vast majority of recordings, I found I had to slightly reduce the level of the horns. The CF 3 and CF 4 speakers, when run this way, suddenly transformed into warm, musical, and powerful speakers, that could play most anything, and sound great doing it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Do you have schematics for any of the versions of the CF4? Would be well worth having a look at the differences and see what there is to learn. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubdog Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I'm going to have some custom made stands built. I'm thinking they will be about six in tall. Not ideal I know that places the horn at about 30 inches. Ten inch stands would be better but that won't work. Should I have a bit of incline back to front or have the stands level? What do you think? cubdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 when u tilt them, it places one midrange/woofer closer to you then the other, not good! If you raise them, u will lose some bass, but not a problem when u biamp, simply turn the horns level down some to compensate for the reduced floor loading. LOL, I once put them on some crates, way off the floor till I was dead center to the horn, they imaged better, but I lost lots of bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 hasbeen my experience that speakers firing up or down never sound right. Curious what to know 6" works but 10" or more does not? It's all vertical, shelf or something? Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubdog Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 As you know Moray the CF3s are not small speakers. I had them on some makeshift 10 inch stands and they were overpowering. Also the speakers are in front of two large paintings and quite frankly I'd rather look at the artwork than the speakers. Six inches is a compromise. cubdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubdog Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I've been thinking, is there a reason that passive bi amping is best? Or should I just invest in an active electronic crossover unit? cubdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gagelle Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 This would be ideal for me. I wish I knew somebody who could build some stands for a reasonable price. I've been checking Goodwill and other second hand stores for two stands about the right height that can support the weight. So far, no luck. I need something that's cheap. Even if I had woodbuilding skills, I'm in an apartment with no place to work. There are so many rules here that I can't even wash my car. The other day, I had to use a Toyota parking lot to put in a new break ligh bulb. It sounds absurd but I was having trouble getting the old bulb out from corrosion. My lease specifically forbids working on a car. But the manager is nice to me and gave me next door neighbors that let me play music at loud volums without complaining. I'm having a good time.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Well aside from the fact that Roy did all the optomizing for you no reason you could not go active but I think that investing in soem fine parts for your passive crossovers woulf be a cheaper and faster end rush to better sound. On an aside note can you comment on the different woofers that you hae in your two versiions of CF3? Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubdog Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 All of my CF3 have the same woofer. I do have a back up woofer that came with my original two and it is different but I've never heard it. cubdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubdog Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Well aside from the fact that Roy did all the optomizing for you no reason you could not go active but I think that investing in soem fine parts for your passive crossovers woulf be a cheaper and faster end rush to better sound. On an aside note can you comment on the different woofers that you hae in your two versiions of CF3? Best regards Moray James. So are you saying to rebuild the crossovers? I'm not clear at what you're getting at.But then, even with upgraded crossovers would it not be best to bi amp? And if it would be why not use an electronic crossover. Aside from cost that is. If I can obtain the same results going passive I would that. cubdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khornbred Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 i'm not Moray or ka7nic, but my .02: bi amping just to control the level of the horns is an expensive means to the end. i would consider new caps in the crossovers, i think what moray is suggesting is some higher quality than what klipsch supplied, and the originals are getting near two decades old. while replacing caps, it wouldn't be much more expense or effort to upgrade the autoformers as well, giving you some other taps with which to control your horn levels. i just drug home another pair of v1 CF-3s off craigslist last weekend, actually from a poster upthread, cnguyen. now i'm using 3 cf-3s as a 3 channel setup in my half-assed home theater room. had to pick up a cheapo yamaha ht reciever to accomodate the center channel. i've been spending the afternoon today listening to a track on one system in one room, then taking that track to the other system and testing. i've come to the conclusion that i can determine no clear favorite between the cf-3s and klipschorns. this wall of cf-3s creates an incredible stage, and they hit the low notes much better, but i really like the impact of the mids of the khorns, and with some music prefer the phantom center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ka7niq Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Replacing Caps, or adding an Autoformer with different Taps, will never give you the fine level control adjustments that a separate amp with level contols will. The Caps are all Mylar in the CF Series, and mine measured the exact values as stock. I pulled the Caps to measure the ESR, and it was fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubdog Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 So my question stands. Passive bi amp or use an electronic crossover? cubdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I have no problem with biamping I have two set ups here right now which are biamped. I think that upgraded crossovers would be the best least expensive route to go. the caps in the Klipsch are all old now and far better sounding caps are available now as well as better inductors. The caps that Klipsch usd were mid line quality of the day at best. Upgrade your system and if you want buy a very good digital crossover and some amps and see if you cah equal then better the stock crossover design. There were changes made to the crossover and you might also play with the latter values. Positioning the speakers so that you are on axis to the horn is where you want to be and will make a huge difference in how they sound. Just out of curiosity have you listened to the large German auto transformers? I would rather upgrade my crossover and use one good amp to drive these CF3 than listen to a stock pair with any number of mid fi amps. I guess that we will have to disagree at this point.Best regards Moray James. Active would be good if you have amps which are worth your while and I think that passive xovers is the way to go for the present. If you want to go with active xovers then do the passive well first then see if you can better them with the digital set up later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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