Cut-Throat Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 " Because you can't control what others do, a drunk driver can crosslanes and drive over you. That being said, when you defeat a safetydevice YOU are the one that is in control." Exactly! why risk your life when someone else is in control of it? - I am willing to risk mine, because I am in control and I have faith in myself. Why turn your life over to a Drunk Driver? Stay home! Connect the Cheater Plugs and relax, knowing you built the amps, the power cords, did the wiring( as I did - I build everything in the chain) and YOU ARE IN CONTROL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 " Because you can't control what others do, a drunk driver can cross lanes and drive over you. That being said, when you defeat a safety device YOU are the one that is in control." Exactly! why risk your life when someone else is in control of it? - I am willing to risk mine, because I am in control and I have faith in myself. Why turn your life over to a Drunk Driver? Stay home! Connect the Cheater Plugs and relax, knowing you built the amps, the power cords, did the wiring( as I did - I build everything in the chain) and YOU ARE IN CONTROL! So what happens when the next kid reads your post and goes "hmmm, he's older and wiser and he said it's safe to do...and cheaper" - then the poor kid gets zapped? Sure, not all zaps are fatal, but I don't go around sticking my fingers in electrical sockets or removing the outlet safety guards in nurseries either... The ethical issue and responsibility extends beyond any risks you're willing to take for yourself. Perhaps it's making a mountain out of a mole-hill, but then I might ask why I've seen dozens of people zapped when using these plugs. I don't understand how or why someone can feel the need to deny the experiences of others and then simply disregard them as an alarmist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 What happens when that same kid sees nascar on TV and thinks those guys are all older and wiser, so I can tailgate 2 inches off a guys bumper going 80 MPH? It is a risky world we live in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 On some amplifiers they have a switch on the back so you can "lift" the ground -- is the amp still grounded when you do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 This is an actual page from the Manual of the Amplifier Manufacturer "Monarchy" Notice the statement that is circled at the bottom of the page. Apparently they are not aware of the 'extreme' danger they are putting their customers in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 On some amplifiers they have a switch on the back so you can "lift" the ground -- is the amp still grounded when you do that? Yes. And there is usually a simple electronic network in parallel with the switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Apparently they are not aware of the 'extreme' danger they are putting their customers in. A statement like that in the owner's manual would not be acceptable for equipment that is UL/CSA certified. In fact this statement is required: DO NOT defeat the safety purpose of the polarized or grounding type plug. A polarized plug has two blades with one wider than the other. A grounding type plug has two blades and a third grounding prong. The wider blade or the third prong are provided for your safety. If the provided plug does not fit into your outlet, consult an electrician for replacement of the obsolete outlet. If they don't know the safety standards, what else don't they know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 We have now reached Rocky mountain preportions..... I'm still waiting for the reports of fatalities or even mild shocks from home audio systems with 2 prong adapter in use. Dr. Who, you've seen dozens of folks being shocked using two prong adapters with normal home audio systems.......................bullsh!t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I've got you all beat -- I've electrocuted myself with the amp unplugged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 NOSValves, Think outside the box. Insulation failure isn't the only way to be shocked by a live chassis. Think children, think liquids, think foreign objects. Facts About Electrical Safety What are the latest statistics on residential electrical safety injuries? The latest figures from the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) indicate that there were 550 total accidental electrocutions in 1998, 200 related to consumer products. Twenty-five of those related to household wiring, and 22 related to antennas and ladders coming into contact with overhead power lines. Nineteen were related to air conditioners, 19 related to pipes, poles and fences, 12 related to extension cords, 12 related to microwaves, and 12 related to lamps, lights and fixtures. The CPSC statistics show that approximately 8,700 were treated for electric shock injuries in 2000; this doesnt include untold numbers who didnt seek medical help or whose injuries, though of electrical origin, were reported simply as burns or falls. But that is only part of the story. According to the National Fire Protection Association, statistics indicate that an annual average of 69,700 residential fires annually are caused by problems with electrical wiring systems, appliances, tools or air conditioning, claiming more than 488 lives, injuring 2,405 victims, and causing $889.8 million in property damage. So there you go. 200 deaths in 1998 related to consumer products, or 36%. So unless you know a guy at the CPSC, we can never know how many are caused by "home audio" systems with cheater plugs. But I think you know that. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Looks like Craig is off the hook -- none of the 200 deaths were caused by audio equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Looks like Craig is off the hook -- none of the 200 deaths were caused by audio equipment. Gosh darn it Dean ....I couldn't of said it better myself [] By the way you could electrocute yourself during a complete power outage 3 prong or 2 prong would make no difference......LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Well at least three things are true. 1. Andy was trying to be helpful. I hope he has not become discouraged. 2. My experience has been that you can usually solve a ground/hum problem without having to resort to lifting or defeating the ground 3. No one has to wear a seat belt if they darn well don't want to! -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 3. No one has to wear a seat belt if they darn well don't want to!-Tom Not in the State of Minnesota or a lot of other states too. It's against the law and you'll get fined. Also, you are far more likely to injure yourself by not wearing a seat belt than by using a cheater plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 I'm not seeing a lot of cheater plug opportunities here... unless it's in the 79 that remain after you subtract out the other. 200 related to consumer products. Twenty-five of those related tohousehold wiring, and 22 related to antennas and ladders coming intocontact with overhead power lines. Nineteen were related to airconditioners, 19 related to pipes, poles and fences, 12 related toextension cords, 12 related to microwaves, and 12 related to lamps,lights and fixtures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 ".... Not in the State of Minnesota or a lot of other states too. It's against the law and you'll get fined. Also, you are far more likely to injure yourself by not wearing a seat belt than by using a cheater plug. ...." We have the same law in Connecticut. In spite of that, there is still a contingent that adamantly refuse to let others dictate whether they will wear seat belts or not. It is part of that New England Yankee mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Sorry to burst your bubble but the seat belt laws were not implementes to protect the consumer. They were implemented to protect the insurance companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Sorry to burst your bubble but the seat belt laws were not implementes to protect the consumer. They were implemented to protect the insurance companies. Yup, folks feel it proper for the government to be your mother and to minimize loss by punishing you in the name of concern for your welfare. And yet, if you don't like seatbelts in cars, these same geniuses and their irrationale exempt motocyclists from wearing helmets. Don't even try toreconcile the illogic and complete inconsistency in reasoning regarding the role of government in society and their role regarding 'public' safety... The laws are implemented to generate revenue. ...Like I want the government making desisions for me! I doubt I could make as inane decisions as they do, but it is a lofty height to which I can aspire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 In PA, they repealed the manditory motorcycle helmet law, because past results showed that in a bad accident, the helmet would typically save the riders life, but would not prevent them suffering such brain damage as to leave the rider in a vegetative state. It was cheaper insurance wise to pay for a funeral than to pay for 30 plus years of around the clock care. When it comes to electricity I like to err on the side of caution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 Who Observed: "The ethical issue and responsibility extends beyond any risks you're willing to take for yourself." This statement couldn't be more true, correct, honest, and IMO professional. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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