As of December 2007 where are Klipsch speakers manufactured?

[Travis In Austin]

That is also specifically why that will never happen. At least not in my company, and doubtfully in Klipsch. The R&D is done here - from concept to design to prototyping to tooling.

Wasn't there some news lately about plants in China having big problems with counterfiting and pirating product? So the manuf. gets a great price on the labor and get a lower cost per unit, but they end up competing against themselves on the product that ends up going out the back door under a different, or even the same, name.

I am sure that China has had to give more assurances on this but how do you keep that in check.

I talked to an engineer who has to go to China periodically to vist their plant, QA, etc., and the conditions he describes are just horific. He just hates it when he has to go over there. Price does matter, it is the first principal in macro economics, however, at some point alltrustic values can come into play. Clothing and the gradual elimination of child labor used to mae it is a good example. When people were made aware of who was making their clothes and the conditions where they lived, they quit buying those clothes, even if others were more expensive. If you had a dog get sick recently you will pay twice the price on food, made in USA like Flint River Ranch, to avoid all of the hearache and expense and glad to do it..

Normally product liability laws insure that products are designed and made in a safe manner. Where products are made in a country where you have no legal recourse the only function that insures safety is inspection. We have discovered recently there is not enough resources to be able to do an adequate inspection. People eventually choose not to accept certain risks, such as with their children or pets, and will avoid products where risks remain.

So while price is a major factor, other outside factor do come into play besides price as purely a function of supply and demand.

Travis

[oldtimer]

Travis, I submit that there plenty of resources to do proper inspections. It's just that those resources are being spent on upper management bonuses instead.

The resources are there and should be spent by the corporations doing business. it should (and please see emphasis in should) not be the governments responsiblity to do the primary (and again i mean primary) inspections regarding safety of a product being brought to market.

[ThomasB]

The practice I am learning is to reject the role of consumer, and adopt the role of a conscious participant in the world around me. Consumer is a word invented not surprisingly to describe a pattern of action and training benefitting the largest industrial concerns. To consume is to "use up" and the quicker the better! Consumers are trained to simply "get the lowest price" - that's called being a "smart consumer." Of course, being really smart might entail asking difficult questions like, was anyone abused so that I can have this product? Is this product dangerous to my health? Was the enviornment damaged in achieving this low price? If I buy this will it hurt or help my neighbors and other local businesses in the community where I live? Oh no, we don't want people being THAT smart, just smart about the Every Day Low Price!

An entire industry called "economics" is employed at full tilt to brainwash consumers. Fancy notions like trade balance, free trade, supply and demand, global economy, free markets and a whole host of anti-worker, anti-union, anti-environmental concepts are blasted through the media day in, and day out to keep people from asking those difficult questions. If you believe in God, ask yourself if he created "The Consumer" in his image, or Man in his image? If you don't believe in God, ask yourself, is your higher purpose in life to be a good Consumer? Do you really need to understand global economic concepts in order to live your life in decency? Can you as a fellow traveller on the planet really "shop without consequences?"

As a conscious participant in the world around me, I begin with my own back yard. Then like a rock dropped in a pond, I work outwards in concentric circles. Do I want it polluted? Do I want my neighbors to have good opportunities to make a decent living? Would I want slavery here? Do I like being able to have my local expert fix or repair the thing I bought from him? Will I be better off if all the businesses in my area are out of area corporations, or will it be better if we have more local ownership? Is it better to buy locally grown food, or import it from across the globe? Yes, I still must buy things from distant places and often with unknown consequences, but I do it much much less than I used to.

Bingo, and an excellent post I might add. You do have a way with words. I might suggest only changing one ... from "conscious" to "conscientious". But then again maybe not, as total awareness of the consumer (as in conscious) may be more appropriate . As you say there is so much more to being a smart consumer than merely finding the lowest price.

You may find this an interesting take on your theory. http://www.storyofstuff.com/

[molecules]

A lot if interesting replies, but can anyone answer the question ?

Are any of the subs made in the US ?

[Amy]

Are any of the subs made in the US ?

No, none of the subwoofers.

[J.4knee]

Are any of the subs made in the US ?

No, none of the subwoofers.

Thats too bad

[DrWho]

I'm pretty sure this subwoofer is made in Hope, Arkansas:
http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/kpt-884.aspx

[mfk]

On the flip side of that coin. My wife has a Toyota Camry. Camry's are made in the USA and Japan. If you were buying one, what would your choice of origin be? Both models are designed in the same place and are supposed to be the same. Well, I chose the one made in Japan. I just believe the quality's better. The Japanese are teaching us how to build cars. There is one visual difference, the Japanese model has a cover for a tow hook in the front bumper, the one made in the USA doesn't.

Back in 1993, I as helping my brother buy a car for his wife, a new Honda Accord. We had the same choice. We chose the Japanese car. She's still driving it today.

So, IMO, things can be made to any quality level you desire, if you have the money. This means the proper facilities, proper design, proper management, properly trained workers and etc.

Amy, I disagree with you. A product should be labeled with the company of manufacture not with the country that design's or tests the product.

BTW, I am very happy with my Chinese RF-82s

Lou

Yea, and my Subaru is made in Indiana, BFD. I don't hear anything about Chevy Malibu's being made in Japan. Although I understand the tariffs on American products in China are high and the yuan is floated artificially low.

We are going to be at war with China within a Generation, they are an old and patient culture for which we have little understanding. My Heritage loudspeakers, which I am now keeping, I am proud of. I am happy with my reference stuff (RF-52/RC52) well a conundrum;couldn't you choose Rhodesia for cheap labor ?

I wouldn't even buy Chinese pet food or clothing. My son, in NROTC is fully aware of who is enemy is. As a retired US Naval Officer, I too am aware of this pending threat...anybody wanna buy a pair of RF-52's and an RC-52 ?

[mfk]

Amy, you have convinced me...I am selling my "Red" Reference speakers, maybe I will get the conversion kit and I will for sure keep my Heresy II's, a descendant of a proud tradition. In over 20 years of service to my country I don't believe I ever used a Chinese made product. My Dell computer is probably made in China or Bangalore, which is sad, Dell uses elves in one commercial. My choices were limited.

The contract for the Avionics for the F-22 went to IMI..they are friends, the Chinese are business partners, funny thing is that IMI will not do business with China. (IMI == Israeli Military Industries). They understand security and loyalty, apparently many consumers don't.

[ZAKO]

HHHMMMM....MFK,, when was the last time we went to war with China???? I thought international trade was the equalizer to reduce war tensions.

[DrWho]

Doesn't it just create a war with economics as the medium instead of guns?

[BLSamuel]

I try to buy American made products when I can - even paying a few dollars more many times.

It's not that I'm against foreign trade, but I am for fair trade.

IMVHO, American companies doing business abroad have a lot tougher time than foreign companies doing business in the US. No real proof, but my gut feeling / opinion and should not be taken as a political statement. (I can't even pretend to understand the politics involved.)

I think Klipsch manufactures products in China, and probably elsewhere, not because they want to necessarily, but because they have to to stay competitive. That said, Klipsch is a global company so you would expect at least some of their products to be manufactured in other countries. I'd be extremely happy if all Klipsch speakers would be manufactured in Hope or other US locations. I'm quite amazed that Klipsch manufactures as many speakers as they do in Hope.

The important thing is that the R&D is done in the US. And it is the very best models that are manufactured in the US. I think the entire Cinema line is manufactured in the US but I think someone said that's because theater operators prefer to buy speakers and even amplifiers that are US made. So if you want to buy US made products, buy US made products. Good luck finding affordable, closer to the mass market cost level, US made electronics....

I'm sure there are a lot of things I couldn't afford if they were made in the US due to the higher cost of labor. I suspect that once China and other lower cost labor countries start to catch up economically and environmentally with the benefits and environmental controls US companies are faced with, manufacturing will redistribute somewhat to be closer to where the products are sold. Only time will tell. I'm relieved that companies such as Klipsch haven't totally abandoned their US manufacturing.

I am really quite happy that Klipsch products are designed, engineered, and developed in the US and that at least some are still manufactured in Hope.

I quite likely wouldn't be able to be happily listening to my Klipsch Custom 2 as I type this had they also been manufactured or assembled in the US rather than China. Not sure how much the cost difference would be but labor is often one of the most expensive components.

just my 0.02 cents

[DrWho]

It's just that those resources are being spent on upper management bonuses instead.

So what salary do you claim is an acceptable limit for upper management? Surely they should make some money, right? Would you like to decide the wages for the rest of the employees too?

[BLSamuel]

It's just that those resources are being spent on upper management bonuses instead.

So what salary do you claim is an acceptable limit for upper management? Surely they should make some money, right? Would you like to decide the wages for the rest of the employees too?

I kind of like the supposed 7 times the lowest paid employee the Ben and Jerry's guys paid themselves.... That's a little unreal as don't they own the company so probably make up for the salary in other ways.... not to mention stock options and the like ...

Upper manangement probably should make good salaries, but probably not obscene 8 figure salaries ... what disgusts me is when they get paid tens of millions including obscene bonuses while driving the company into the ground or laying off thousands of workers. And then get paid millions to leave if things don't work out. We all should have such a good deal.

[dkp]

It's just that those resources are being spent on upper management bonuses instead.

So what salary do you claim is an acceptable limit for upper management? Surely they should make some money, right? Would you like to decide the wages for the rest of the employees too?

I kind of like the supposed 7 times the lowest paid employee the Ben and Jerry's guys paid themselves.... That's a little unreal as don't they own the company so probably make up for the salary in other ways.... not to mention stock options and the like ...

Upper manangement probably should make good salaries, but probably not obscene 8 figure salaries ... what disgusts me is when they get paid tens of millions including obscene bonuses while driving the company into the ground or laying off thousands of workers. And then get paid millions to leave if things don't work out. We all should have such a good deal.

blsamuel-I'm responding to your statement, "We all should have such a good deal." Are you stating that they were given these choice positions (as opposed to them earning them)?

-David

[BLSamuel]

blsamuel-I'm responding to your statement, "We all should have such a good deal." Are you stating that they were given these choice positions (as opposed to them earning them)?

-David

No. Not at all. I'd like to think or at least hope that most CEOs that make obscene money have earned it and deserve it. But many don't deserve the huge salaries and bonuses, especially when things go south.

I suppose I'm getting more cynical in my older, supposedly wiser, age... after working over 20 years for a large publicly traded company.

David - See PM for my ranting I probably shouldn't post publicly - though a lot is public knowledge....

Ben

[Tom Adams]

Ok......I'm confused. Several times in this thread there has been the comment that (in so many words) the product has to be made overseas to stay price competitive and that's because of the lower labor cost in where ever versus the higher labor costs of manufacturing here in the US.

Personally, I'm not sure I buy into that. Sure, the Honda's and Toyota's and whatever that are made here are a bit more expensive than the KIA's and Hyundai's made in China & Korea. However, the price difference has more to do with Government subsidies and our Imperial Federal Goverment's tax structure than with how much a factory worker earns.

Here's a data point for you folks and I stand by this figure because any manufacturing cost accountant will agree with it. The direct labor cost for a typically manufactured item is in the range of 4% to 11% of the product. For car companies, that figure hovers around the 4% mark. IOW, 95% of the production cost of a car is attributed to purchased materials and overhead.

My point here is that direct labor has very little to do with the cost of a product. The big savings are realized in decreasing the purchased material costs. And because of this, I contend that this country CAN compete price-wise if it weren't for the tax structure in this country that indirectly REWARDS U.S. corporations for locating plants outside the U.S. Sadly, we lose sight of the real culprit and tend to focus on the "bad guy" coporation for taking U.S. jobs and giving them away to other countries.

Tom

[BLSamuel]

Tom,

Does the direct labor costs include the health care and retirement costs that most likely aren't available to the really low cost overseas laborers?

It is very believable that our government could be the real culprit, though the excuse we generally hear is the lower cost of labor. In the car company example, does the overhead represent the cost of health care and pensions for current workers and retirees? I recall reading somewhere a few years ago that approximately $900 of the costs of one of the big 3 US automakers vehicles went towards paying for healthcare for the current and retired workers.

It does seem that corporations are practically rewarded for moving production and workers out of the US. I forget where I heard that but I had kind of forgotten about it. I suspect that if our elected representatives would work for those they represent or the common good of the country as oppposed to looking out for themselves and keeping themselves in office, the governmnet might actually function more like it was intended. I really think the intent was for normal people to serve in Congress rather than Congress being popluated with elite professional politicians.

I still continue to buy American made products when I can and support companies who at least try to keep some manufacturing in the US as I think it's very difficult to do so and is probably a lot more complex than just cheaper labor.

Ben

[jt1stcav]

It is precisely because of the global economy and how corporations from all over the world do business today that I can't always purchase items that are strictly manufactured in the US, no matter how much I try to. And due to my extremely limited budget from my low-paying job with a small family-run American manufacturer (that cannot afford health insurance for its employees due to rising costs of outsourced parts used in the local manufacturing of our American-made products), I can only afford so much or do completely without if I only want American made goods.

If I was wealthy and money wasn't an issue, I would certainly make every effort to buy American manufactured products (even if some of the contents that make up said products come from other countries). Unfortunantly, I am not wealthy, so I try to make smart decisions when it comes to the products I can afford. Although the ProMedia 2.1s I'm enjoying as I write this are indeed assembled in China, I feel certain Klipsch does not condone slave labor and sweat shops, therefor I feel good about the decision I made to purchase them and would recommend them to even the most astute and consummate consumer!

[mfk]

My Subaru is made in Indiana, go figure...as far as my RF-52's/RC-52, they are cool, glad QC is done in the states, they work well, really well.