Subwoofer Placement

[STUDIO 2000]

Hi being new to this and having my first Sub on order , I wish to get your input on sub placement. I have heard of the listenining postion sub placement then moving around the room till you hear the sub giving a nice all round spectrum without being boomy and putting the sub in that area.

Most of the sub placement photos I have seen and read, suggest to put the subs in between the center and fronts. I have a restriction where my Rf-7 speakers really take up most of the front wall (13feet wide) and there is at most a 19' gap between my entertainment cabinet and two fronts, thus no space for subwoofer. My room has some restrictions. My right wall is pretty open with power outlet, my left wall is pretty open and next to my couch there is also a place and behind the couch there is an open area approx 5 feet from couch. Do you suggest just experimenting or is there a next best placement for a sub besides the very front which is not possible in my situation?

My room is 17X13 feet.

Thx

Dave

[Guest srobak]

While not ideal - you could place it in FRONT of an RF-7 and along a wall - since the drivers in the RF are elevated quite a bit... they won't be blocked by the sub being placed in front of it. One thing you don't want to do is place the sub too close to the listening position, or behind it... as you will be able to localize where it is coming from.

[CECAA850]

While not ideal - you could place it in FRONT of an RF-7 and along a wall - since the drivers in the RF are elevated quite a bit... they won't be blocked by the sub being placed in front of it. One thing you don't want to do is place the sub too close to the listening position, or behind it... as you will be able to localize where it is coming from.

Actually, nearfield placement is not that bad. As long as you have it crossed over low enough and calibrate it properly, it will disappear. Nearfield is also beneficial if you have a slightly underpowered sub. You can lower the gain and have the sub work more within it's limits if it's closer to you.

[Guest srobak]

True - that I can see.... but certainly not behind the listening position... right?

[STUDIO 2000]

Here is a picture of the room. Probably does not do it justice, but I have limited space in between the center speaker and the mains. Its going to be a matter of listening for sure, but based on this picture how would you set up the subwoofer?

Thanks

Dave

[DrWho]

What about using the sub like a coffee table? Does your receiver offer you independant control over the subwoofer distance?

Is there enough room to tuck the sub inbetween the TV stand and the front wall? What if you tucked it behind one of the RF-7's and pulled both of your mains out a little bit? There seems to be a rather large triangular gap between the inside of the front mains and the TV stand.

I have never had good results from putting the sub at the listening position and crawling around the room to find a good spot. I'm not sure one could support the concept with physics either...but I would be interested in hearing it if anyone can provide some hard facts.

If you do end up with the sub somewhere other than the front wall, then the best location is probably centered directly behind you along the back wall.

I noticed you have bass traps in the room [Y] What brand did you go with?

[Southern]

If your refering to the SVS subwoofer it will be too large to use as a coffee table, it is better suited

as a lamp table. My room is narrow like yours and I ended up putting the subwoofer in the adjacent

room which I have double doors which open up to it.

In your case if you can't utilize it as a lamp table then I would suggest placing it in the left rear corner.

You can always experiment on the location.

Here is a photo:

[Rsoxfan]

I agree with the Doc... I would try and pullout the 7's a little and tuck it in

[STUDIO 2000]

Thanks everyone,

Very good suggestions. I think I might have exaggeratedt he traingular space between the front as far as size.

The only thing I can do is wait till it arrives and see if I can tuck it in.

Dr. Who ~~

Funny you asked about the bass traps. I read somewhere on this forum (Believe it was your posts) on how important it is to treat a room so I started with that. I looked into what I believe are problem areas and where the most first reflections would occur. I built these bass traps from Rigid Fiberglass board and bought 12 pieces for around $89. I think they were 4X8 and cut them in half for the corners and I stacked it to a 2" thickness for the bass trap. I also treated the rest of the room with the same materials along the reflection points in the room with a 1" and 2" thickness combination. I alternated between a burgandy and black color pattern (strecthed duck/burlap) material.

I also had a window where the curtains reside on the left side of the diagram. This was a problem area I ended up making a wooden frame (first attempt and was a little skew) and then I stuffed the wooden frame with real thick insulation. I then flattened the insulation and also stretched it with burlap and after that the frame fit tight and the window was totally covered - I then also covered it with a curtain, now the room is very dark, so it benefited me acoustically, treated the light and looks nice aesthetically.

Before I treated the room, it had much echo. The problem area for me was no door in this room, it has an arch (back right of diagram), and the best I could do in this area was to put some nice thick curtains on it and tried to make the length of the curtain touch the floor as close as I could. When I talk in the room or clap, it is a very nice quiet room without all that echo, but it feels natural. I think this room is well treated. The first thing that my wife pointed out and I noticed was when I played a movie on the Plasma, the Plasma speakers itself, sounded very good. It had dimension to it. So I cannot wait till I get all this set up. I have had these Rf-7's since February/March this year and saved up - bought piece by piece amp/processor/subwoofer. They will be arriving soon. I will only have 3 channel for now and subwoofer.

Questions:

I am now interested in building a diffuser and place it in the middle of the back wall. I want a slight larger sound to the room and wonder if that will do the trick.

Do you think the sub could also suffice in that very front left side of the wall just in front edge of the rf-7 with the sub's back facing that left wall and front of sub faced towards the right wall?. There is a power outlet there on left wall (on diagram).

Thx

Dave

[Guest srobak]

Studio> Based upon your drawings, I would put it directly in front of the left speaker if you couldn't fit it between it and the entertainment center.

Southern> Does that sub setup cause any localization issues? What do you have your sub crossed at?

[Southern]

I have my sub crossed over at 80 Hz and only have it activated for movies not music. My mains are set to large. Since the LFE signals are only sent to the sub I do not have any localization issues. The visual effects from the TV also distract where the speakers are located.

[Islander]

Have you thought of moving your TV and system to the wall with the former window? You'd be able to move the speakers further apart and have room for the sub. Klipsch generally recommends putting the speakers on the long wall of a room. If the sofa is not centered in front of the TV, it may not be that important, as you likely sit at one end anyway.

On the recommendation of another forum member (thanks, Peter!), I rotated my whole living room 90 degrees and the speakers went from being 5 feet apart to being 12 feet apart. It made a major improvement in the sound and made the room seem more spacious as well.

[STUDIO 2000]

Thanks Islander,

Thats a good suggestion. The only issue is that the Plasma is wall mounted, thus its fixed at this point.

I think I will just try and see what my alternatives are when that sub arrives. I am getting excited!

Dave

[oldtimer]

I would try the listening position method first, and see if that spot can be made to work with the room. Have fun!

[IndyKlipschFan]

A lot will depend on what your room dictates you can do. For most applications, someplace up front will work more times than not. Glen (http://blog.audiovideointeriors.com/casual/606diy) has sub behind you, and it works because it is blended in the way it should be. I also like the coffee table idea, close to you might work too. Experiement and let us know how it works out.

Future THX spec'ed rooms will have subs under the surrounds as well. I am not so sure it is because of the maybe inferior side or back surrounds... OR for more slam into the room but x over to not locate where that BOOM is coming from. A friend of mine has the sub behind his seating "claiming you can't tell under a certain fequency' Again, in theory, this may be true... maybe, but an explosion happens on screen especially one coming at you... and it seems silly it booms behind you 8 feet back to me.

My 2 Cents

Roger

[oldtimer]

In his living room (not the dedicated theater) fellow Klipscher eq shadimar has three svs subs in the back left hand corner (as you face the screen) as part of his five cornwall set up. I can tell you that when we demoed movies such as the phantom menace that it did not sound as if the explosions were behind you. I remember when subs came out to the masses that salesmen would tell you it did not matter where you put them in a room because we can't localize those low frequencies. of course we know it does matter some because of the differences in room acoustic behavior. It probably matters more where not to put them in your room than where you put it.

[STUDIO 2000]

Everyone,

Thanks much for all your help. The sub arrived today.

Ok, it barely fit, but it did!!!! I managed to get the SVS PB 12+ Subwoofer (Hx25"XWidth 18"X Height25")

between the left Rf-7 and the center speaker, but its very tight and my wife thinks the room looks off now, because everything was center, now there is a sub on the left and a bare spot on the right. But sound is important to me. There is a back corner that this sub would look awesome in, but I dont know if I will be sacrificing sound as the corner is the back left about 5 feet from the listening position. I think I wll experiment, but I do have a feeling leaving it in the front, will yield better results.

Thanks,

Dave

[DrWho]

The fun thing about experimenting is that it's both free and educational. I think at one point or another I've tried a lot of the crazy notions just to see what the differences are. If nothing else, it helps build a framework for making comparisons.

[Southern]

SVS recommends corner sub placement, this is from there website:

Where do I put my SVS subwoofer?

You
might have noticed. SVS subwoofers are sometimes big. There are a lot
of very good reasons for this discussed above, but suffice it to say
it's one of those instances when "size matters"). Still, most our
customers find these subs very elegant, understated, and stylish. The
svelte cylindrical design takes up little floor space, while our box
subs require a bit more "real estate". Either shape can usually fit
well in a corner or along your front "sound-stage".. And corners are
where you want them.

Many
many theories abound regarding subwoofer placement. Deep bass is
essentially omni directional, and with most setups, they are difficult
to locate by ear. Yet for the lowest extension, and the greatest
natural reinforcement of the bass sound pressure level (SPL) corner
placement is usually best in most every shape room (and regardless of
the brand of subwoofer). Wherever possible, avoid placement where the
sub is adjacent to openings into other rooms such as hallways, and open
doors. A closed corner, reasonably close to the prime listening
position in your music room or home theater is nearly always ideal.
Just be certain to recalibrate channel levels (set the playback volume)
as you move your sub to different locations. Moving even a foot or two
(say from a wall to a corner) can have a radical impact on how the bass
sounds in your listening position. Just think of your room as another
part of your speaker system.

[Guest srobak]

between the left Rf-7 and the center speaker, but its very tight and my wife thinks the room looks off now, because everything was center, now there is a sub on the left and a bare spot on the right.

Tell her you need to buy another for the right in order to balance the room both visually and audibly

Hey - it's worth a shot!