Filler for beat up rounded edges?

[mike stehr]

Howdy,

I'm fixing up a pair of raw birch LaScala's. I'll be re-veneering the tops, and some of the edges of the cabinets have some nicks and a couple rounded edges. They will stay raw birch with oil.

The rounded corner in the pic is on the bottom of one cabinet, and the largest flaw out of both cabinets, being roughly the size of a dime. The other flaws are much smaller....

I'm pondering what to use in the way of a filler to repair corner damage like in the pic, and to get good square edges around the sides of the tops of the cabinets. So there is something built up for a substrate on the edges, so the veneer will have something to adhere to.

I'm thinking clear 2 part epoxy mixed with birch sawdust.....or wood doe, but it's not easy to find. And then file and sand things square.

I'm open for suggestions......

Thanks,

Mike

[wwh]

Are all three facets of that corner going to be veneered?

I had a similar problem, and just rebuilt the corner using All-purpose Bondo (in the wood filler section at Lowe's)and a sander to shape.

[WMcD]

Thanks for the photo. We can all see what you're dealing with.

For the record. The fillers all have common approach. There is some grit which I think is mostly very fine sand. Then the problem is the binder. What is liquid and then solidifies. In Wood Dough, it is a lacquer. In Bondo, it is epoxy. In stuff like Elmers Wood filler, it is yelllow glue.

I use the latter. I'm not sure what the difference is between the Elmers exterior grade and the interior. I expect the exterior is more durable. Maybe the interior is latex technology. I use the exterior grade. When dry, it sands down smooth.

I happen to like the Elmers exterior on the theory that the yellow glue component sticks to the wood and you can get it into every nook and craney (sp). There is a problem that if you put on one big glob, it takes a long time to dry and there is a shrinkage issue.

This is consistent with most finishing issues. Building a finish in one step is no gonna work. The best assistants are 12 or 24 hours of time. These helpers are free of charge. Yet the people at HD don't give them enough credit.

I have filled in such gaps (I wind up with many--ugg) with Elmers. Put down a first coat with fingers and get it into the fiber of the underlying wood. This will probably fill up to half the ultimate height. Let dry overnight. Then come back with another coat which will be 125 percent of the ultimate height. Let dry over night.

It might go without saying. Getting the corner square will require a sanding block. I'm sure you will be able to get a very nice corner.

A final thought is whether the glue which sticks on your veneer will take to the filler. I don't think it is an issue.

Gil

[JJkizak]

I use the small fibreglass automotive kits with cloth or very small fibres mixed into the stuff and it sticks so well you have to beet it off with a hammer. Block sand the edges to the sharpness of a razor if you care too. The fibreglass strength is many times stronger than the original wood edge. It will also have great heat resistance.The above assuming you are covering everything with veneer. Matching the existing wood or veneer is difficult.

JJK

[mas]

Given that you are not staining the exterior, stain absorption is not an issue.Only adhesion is a factor.

Given these conditions, for exterior dings and corners, Bondo (epoxy) is definitely the way to go. A tried and proven mainstay that has been used in many shops for many years. In fact, in 30+ plus years, I am not familiar with any major SR shop using anything else in similar circumstances.

Now....if you want to mess with shooting Polane... Terrific but VERY NASTY stuff! []

[michael hurd]

Bondo is a styrene plastic monomer that has talc as the bulking agent ( micro glass beads and talc make it easy to sand ) peroxide is the hardener that causes a exothermic reaction to cure the filler.

[WMcD]

I'll agree that Bondo might well be better in many ways. Strenght particularly.

OTOH I appreciate the convenience and friendly nature of Elmers.

Gil

[mike stehr]

I'll agree that Bondo might well be better in many ways. Strenght particularly.

OTOH I appreciate the convenience and friendly nature of Elmers.

Gil

I'm working in a area that I have to avoid fumes, so the convenience and friendly nature of Elmers may be the best option to go with.

Though in the past I have used bondo to patch and repair a beat-up MDF subwoofer enclosure. It was some stuff called bondoglass, and it worked very well.

But it was a dark gray almost black in color. It was no big deal since the enclosure was painted black.

But how do you get bondo to match a raw birch finish? IIRC, the Elmers filler Gil refers to can be mixed with sawdust to match the finish. Does one do the same with bondo?

I'll try the Elmers first, and see how it goes......

Thanks for the replies Gil, and folks.

Mike.

[mas]

For general information, Bondo CAN be tinted - most commonly using the white filler and white creme hardener used in conjuction with tints made for use with Bondo.

If you are interested, a couple of sites describing this are listed below. But a quick google search will provide many more.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Tinting_body_filler.html

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2080&familyName=Bondo+Boatyard+Resin+-+polyester (the marine variant)

http://books.google.com/books?id=-pKtFXGM6cIC&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=wood+tinted+bondo&source=web&ots=yietITf1Hs&sig=fAbc5G-7y11wfWi9DeGLb7YVyOg

and many more...

[capo72]

I really like Minwax High Performance wood filler for a job like yours. It is basically bondo for wood.

Jeremy

[fini]

Mike,

Here's another approach. If you have router, you can use a rabbet bit (depending on the ding size, 3/8 X 3/8? A common size) to rout a rabbet in the edge of the speaker. Use a sharp chisel to square up the rabbet. Then, either use a piece of solid birch cut to fit, or (this is a cool trick) "harvest" a chunk off the LaScala from an inconspicuous spot (the bottom, inside, etc.). If you do this, you know the grain will match. It all depends (as someone already pointed out) how many of those three edges will be seen. Oh, make sure the grain is oriented in the proper direction.

[michael hurd]

No matter what you do with bondo, it will never match wood grain. You would need to reveneer the cabinet. ( actually both if you want things to match )

As mentioned a carefully inlaid solid wood border would cover that up without the need for new veneer, a cabinet shop or high end woodworker could do that and refinish the cabinet.

[fini]

Michael, I'm talking about a solid wood dutchman (patch). You probably knew that.

[greg928gts]

Minwax High-Performance wood filler works great. You can sand it to a pinpoint edge and corner. I like to veneer first, then paint the backs, then put a finish on the veneer. This way the edges of the veneer are also painted black. It makes a very clean look.

Why not just try some Minwax filler and see how you like it? I think you'll be impressed.

Especially with La Scala's, make sure to check the side and bottom connections. They are often a little loose and now is the time to glue and screw them back together.

You might also want to do the "tap" test on all the important panels to see if there are any voids in the plywood. I recently found a huge void right on the front of a Khorn and had to fill it.

www.dcchomes.com/Mkhorn.html

Greg

[WMcD]

In my experience, the Elmer types are somewhat close to birch or fir in color. But a long way from being a match. Here I can claim some clear advantage over Bondo. Maybe the MinWax is somewhat better or worse. I haven't used it.

I read that some woodworkers have used sawdust and glue. This is what modern products replace. Even that is probably no closer than any of the modern stuff.

Usually the problem is that no filler when dry will take stain as well as any wood. Similarly, even if the filler is a close match before putting on oil or lacquer, it just does not match after a clear finish. This is just because the structure of the wood and the structure of the filler are very different.

If you are a stickler, it is possible to tint the Elmer types with paint to darken it, if necessary. Stores have various colored fillers.

I have little faith. You see projects on HGTV where people say they are nailing oak or the like into place with nails, counter sink the nails, and put in filler which purportedly matches. Dang. I doesn't match to my eye. The oak at the office has this same technique.

As sugggested by others, you should try some product and then determine if you can live with it.

Gil

[Groomlakearea51]

Bondo is a styrene plastic monomer that has talc as the bulking agent ( micro glass beads and talc make it easy to sand ) peroxide is the hardener that causes a exothermic reaction to cure the filler.

Much better than endothermic... [] Just kidding!!!

Several grades of Bondo; Bondo "gold" is a better choice IMHO. Finer consistency and dries more evenly. For veneering, etc. Bondo is a very good filler medium to work with, just use thin coats, sand and build up. Plain birch is going to pose a number of challenges because of the age of the birch, matching, the birch hue, etc. I always keep a bag of birch sanding dust in the shop and have used it with CPE (penetrating epoxy/ resin) and some different stains and dyes to get the filler close to the original. They key is to sand the speaker to the desired finish, apply your oil, or finish, to a section on the bottom, and then try to match the "mix" to that finish.

That chip in the picture is a real challenge... Another alternative is to fill the chips, sand, etc, and then apply fresh birch veneer over the existing veneer, then oil appropriately to match the non-veneered sections (bass bin area, etc.)

As others have said, time is the key, just let everything dry and harden as long as possible.