Quenten Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 Hoping for some handling advice. A friend of mine has the 5800, bought it in Janurary. It broke in July--took it to Sound Advice (local dealor for repair). They kept it untill November, shipped it back still broken. Returned it for further repair, got it back in December--still broken. Shipped it again for repair--now it's lost! My friend has called Denon/SA many times complaining and received no satisfaction. Sound Advice seems to be unable to handle the repair & less than sympathetic to the situation (he did'nt buy it from them). This seems like a customer service issue. Should Denon send him a new receiver or put pressure on SA to resolve this? Is there anybody at Denon that you guy's can reccomend for him to call to get some help with this. I can't immagine buying a flagship receiver and getting such a lack of service! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch-daddy Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 I think Denon should put the heat on the dealer. That is if they are a certified and authorized dealer. Also depending on how much money for friend has in this receiver he may need to advise this dealer if they dont find a reciever or replace it asap that he will be taking "legal action" and they will somehow find it. This is always the case. Play hardball. ------------------ Home Theater: Yamaha RX-V1000 Klipsch RF-3's Klipsch KSC-C1(LOOKING FOR A RC-3 OR RC-3II) Klipsch Subwoofer KSW-12 Television: TOSHIBA THEATER VIEW 50" DVD Player SONY S-360 CD Changer CDC 509 5 Disc Yamaha comming soon. monster cable interconnects/12 gauge speaker wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 find out who the manager of customer service is at denon. then tell him about all this. sounds like a similar hassle i had w/ a velodyne hgs-18 (the local klipsch/velodyne tech actually is the one who broke it). talked to the customer service mgr @ vel & he sent me a brand new hgs-18 (which sells for well over $2k). ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 This makes me sick, Call Denon talk with the customer service departament. Denon most put pressure on the LOUSY service the store gave you. Its not normal a reciever of this caliber and ANY reciever be reurned so many times.Its total ripoff. SA should replace the reciever,THEY had it and its THEIR damn job not to lose it. SA should(MUST)replace what they lost by the same reciever. Be sure to warn others about this lousy place and about the great(NOT) service they give. Any store that would even try someting like this would have FREE publicity from me and I would make sure they loose sales.Damn right Dont let them win this.They have to pay for it. You should AT LEAST get a new 5800 for all the troubles and lost time they caused. If all fails I would drag the store to court,they are at fault.They took the unit,they dont have it now.Its their fault.They can blame Santa and even Stalin,its all a cheap coverup. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuzek Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 Hello All, I am the person Quenten is referring too. Back in July in Tallahassee, FL we had a series of storms and somehow a powersurge bypassed by suppressor by traveling in through the rear surround speakers (don't ask - I have no idea). To say the lest the boards inside were shorted. This is the only case where Denon's warranty does not cover repair (the unit was purchased from Etronics). I took it Sound Advice, the only Denon Authorized service center in my area, and paid $1000 (Denon's blanket amount for non-warranty, electrical damage so I was told). They shipped it to their Miami service center. After a few months of calling and being run around, I finally called Denon parts to see what the hold up was (according to Sound Advice they were waiting on parts) and found out SA had ordered the wrong item. The Denon parts guy overnighted the part to SA. I got the receiver back on October 30th. The 5800 was returned to Sound Advice on October 31st - the Atkis remote did not control it at all. They never replaced the sensor. I got it back a second time late December - took it home and checked it all out. The remote works now and during the speaker output check I found out it is not passing the subwoofer output - I have no base!!! Returned it on December 29th (a Saturday) and it was put on the truck to Miami that day. Called yesterday to see whats going on - Miami does not have the unit. Called Tallahassee store - they said it was shipped down. Left messages to the SA service manager the past two days in a row - no returned calls. The unit is MIA. They have had the 5800 longer than I have owned it. I am not a pushy person, obviously a downfall for me right now, but I have had enough. I can never seem to reach a Denon rep with any clout at all. What should I do next? Thanks for hearing me rant. James This message has been edited by jbuzek on 01-10-2002 at 08:25 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted January 10, 2002 Share Posted January 10, 2002 The biggest pieces of evidence you have right now are the original receipt and the paper the repair dept. gave you when you took it in the last time for repair. Any other papers you have definitely will not hurt your case either. But BE SURE TO DOCUMENT EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS!! If someone hands you a gum wrapper to throw out, be sure to makes notes about it. A well documented case has a lot better chance of winning. I'm not sure where the monatary limits for Small Claims Court in Florida but if you do have to hire an attorney just remember, the attorney will most likely charge about 1/4 to 1/3 of your amount awarded by the court. See if you can add cost of legal fees to your claim so you come out at least even on the deal. After all, you took it to them and they gave you a receipt saying that they have it. Now your not getting it back. Do they just expect you to walk away and say "Oh, well.". I had trouble locally with a parking garage near my office that parks your car for you. The customers are not allowed to do it themselves. Of course they scratched it in couple places. Being really ticked and after getting a non-responsive answer from the manager I decided to take it to the next level. Total damage was about $200-$300 or so. Being in the legal business, as I am, I have all kinds of nasty and vengeful things to do. The first (and fortunatly the only) thing I did was to write to the owner of the garage (certified mail with a signature return, remember-document everything). Took pictures and labled them with Plaintiff's Exhibit stickers I borrowed from a court reporter (if you need any just let me know). In the garage there is a sign that says that their insurance does not cover damage caused to vehicles. I wrote in the letter "I realize that (the sign) is on display and the customer is not permitted to park their own car, but that doesn't mean you are not responsible for the care of my car while it is in your possession." In closing in the letter I added that takin gthis to court would cost them more in litigation fees than the actual cost of the damage. Time to get NASTY.......but legal BTW--The garage paid for the damage and told me to park someplace else. I now take the bus and save some $2,500 a year between parking fees, gas, tires, lower mileage car insurance etc. ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany (Cornell Hotwired) McIntosh C33 Preamp McIntosh MVP-841 CD/DVD Rotel RB-1080 Amp Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Ortofon VMS-30 mkII Cartridge Stanton 999SS Cartridge Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 400mk II Monster Interlink 300mk II Monster Video 2 (DVD to TV) Monster Power HTS-5000 MIT Terminator 2 Bi-Wire Speaker cables Studio Tech U-48RW Cabinet Vibrapods Enough empty boxes for a fire hazard! This message has been edited by tblasing on 01-10-2002 at 02:29 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenten Posted January 10, 2002 Author Share Posted January 10, 2002 Thanks for the replies guy's. Hate to see somebody getting a raw deal. Would sure be nice if he could get that new Denon 5803, or at least the chance to upgrade for his trouble! But thats a customer service issue!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 If I may offer some advice. Being polite and tolerant has no downside. You're now in a position to explain what a fine fellow you've been. Small claims court may be the ultimate remedy. Let me suggest an alternate approach first. It is pretty much indisputable that SA has taken you're money and has not returned your property. Do some looking in the phone book and find the Florida department of consumer affairs or trade commission. I don't know the exact name. However, there is some state agency which is charge of consumer problems. Call them, and ask the address to which a citizen can send consumer complaints. They will probably not intervene. But you need this address. Then find the highest ranking person at SA. I'd call the secretary of state of the state of Florida, corporate information division. You'll probably find that SA is a foreign corporation. But they will have the name and address for the president, or at least a corporate mailing address. Send a very nice letter to the president explaining everything. Especially that you paid the fee and don't have the unit back. You want the inside address of the letter to be to the president. Next to this block, show a cc to the Florida department of consumer affairs or trade commission with the address, etc. State specifically you want you're unit back fixed. Give your phone number and ask for immediate action by SA. Tell them you've been dealing with manager (by name) at phone number xxx-xxxx. I had some good results cc-ing to the Federal Trade Commission. However, it seems that you might not have a federal claim unless money has crossed state lines. The state equivalent of the FTC will be a big enough threat. The company will pay attention. Gil This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 01-11-2002 at 08:56 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 Sorry, when I said "Time to get Nasty!" I was referring to going through the legal system. Not, well....calling them up and yelling obscenities at the shop personnel or anything like that. If one of the television or radio stations has a Consumer Advocate type person on their news staff you want to cc: a copy to them too. Nothing hurts like bad publicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 Tblasting makes some very good points. We're on the same wavelength. In any legal dispute, paper receipts have great merit. It is a matter of "building a file". It pretty much goes without saying. If you have receipts you can attach them to any letter or pleading. They speak louder than testimony. It is also important to pick your forum. The choice of forum will affect whether the other guy can back down gracefully without this becoming a matter of principle or precedent. The local TV station might pick it up. Unlikely. But if so, it creates fear and the alleged wrongdoer. SA would be forced to defend in public. They can't back down. We don't want that. We want the consumer satisfied. I'm suggesting a more private solution. With a cc to the letter to the "little FTC" of the State of Florida the following will happen. The company will take the complaint seriously. Someone in the company will get on the ball and give our bbs member some satisfaction. Then the company is going to write a letter to the "little FTC". It will say: "We thank Mr. Consumer for bringing to our attention an unfortunate situation which arose because of delays of shipping replacement parts and some service issues which were beyond our control. We have communicated with Mr. Consumer and believe the situation is now resolved. Natually SA is committed to customer service." Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 gil, great points. for the states, would it be ok to cc the state attorney general? iow, is that what u meant by ftc? i've done that w/ some credit card co. problems. well, not cc but actually contacted my state AG. then they send the letter to xyz co. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 I've received quick response and satisfaction by e-mailing Corporate at Hi-Fi Buys.On another occasion I e-mailed their Corporate office about good, knowledgeable service I received from one of their employees.The next time I was in the local store that employee mentioned he appreciated my e-mail.So evidently it works to some degree.Sound Advice is owned by the Tweeter conglomerate.You might try the Tweeter site. Good luck. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 I'm no lawyer - but I did stay at a Holiday Inn recently. My perspective is that the damage and attempted repairs have little to nothing to do with this "case". The simple fact is that SA took on the responsibility of being your shipping agent when they agreed to ship the unit the last time. Further, the actual shipping company (FedEx, UPS, etc., you didn't say) also shares in the responsibility of tracking/finding your property. Personally, that is where I think your focus should be. SA said it went out, so they need to show some type of shipping document that has some evidence that the box changed from their possession to the shipping company - i.e. UPS signature, assigned tracking number, etc. Additionally, Denon repair center said they didn't get it, therefore the onus is on the shipping company to prove that it was delivered and taken outta their possession by someone at Denon. If the shipping company cannot prove they delivered it and there's documentation they picked it up - BINGO! They're on the hook for your stuff. One question not answered (asked?) is, was the unit insured by the shipping company? By you? By SA? If it was insured (hopefully for the right amount), the solution might be as simple as filing a claim. My condolences - this type of thing can be a true *****. Tom Adams This message has been edited by Tom Adams on 01-12-2002 at 11:34 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 The FTC is the Federal Trade Commission. It is an administrative arm of the federal government. Most, if not all states have a similar administrative body. In the language of lawyers, these are called little FTC's. I wouldn't just send a cc to a main address for any attorney general's office. Check your phone book for govenment offices. You'll find the name of consumer complaint offices, some of which may be associated with the AG. These may include offices at the city, county, state, and federal level. Give a call and get the exact address to write to. As I recall the federal office is someplace in D.C. and is a P.O. Box. They may well just warehouse letters. None the less, a business person will pay attention. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilH Posted January 18, 2002 Share Posted January 18, 2002 I'd like to throw in some words as an old retail guy with several years as a store manager if I can. If you have not yet, I highly suggest you physically go meet with the store manager of the Sound Advice you took your Denon to. Even though he is not the "service manager" he is the "keeper of the castle" and responsible for what goes down on the sales floor and at the service counter in that building. I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone, but I know that sometimes things slip through the cracks (especially during the harried Christmas season). Sound Advice didn't get to where they are today by intentionally blowing off customer problems. Tell the store manager the details of the problem and give him the opportunity to try to make things right...that is one of the many facets of his job. If that does not work (but I think it will) ask for the manager's District Manager name and phone number. Although you dread a problem like this as a manager, you, at the same time, welcome it as an opportunity to take care of a customer who has been definitely overlooked. Believe me, a manager and a company does not want people like The Ears (just using you as a common example, no slam intended)bad mouthing what you have worked hard to achieve...gain a satisfied customer base with repeat business in an extremely competitive world. I hope you give them one more chance to right this wrong for you. This process will also develop a much faster and less costly result for you than a long legal battle. PhilH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 so what ended up happening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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