Roller Blocks under speakers?

[sberger]

I've been reading about the positive effect of doing this on this on the Hoffman forums. Has anyone tried this with their set up?

[mas]

Huh?

Ok, I'll bite...

The only 'rollerballs' of which I am familiar are computer mice and pens.

What in the heck are rollerballs and (at the risk of falling out of my chair), what mystical improvement are they supposed to impart to the sound of the speakers?

This isn't some radically new approach being marketed by the folks up at Esalen is it? (Hey, since Price died meditating when a boulder fell on him, they have had to reinvent themselves! HT accessories just might be the ticket!)

[sberger]

Ok, wrong term. I meant roller blocks, or roller bearings. Aurios and Symposium are two pretty well known companies who make them. Steve Hoffman and Barry Diament, two very well respected and well known mastering engineers, both use the Symposium blocks.

Here's a post by Barry in Hoffman's forum about using roller bearings:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3238355&postcount=25

And here's a link to Symposium's site:

http://www.symposiumusa.com/rbjr.html

[Groomlakearea51]

some radically new approach being marketed by the folks up at Esalen is it? (Hey, since Price died meditating when a boulder fell on him, they have had to reinvent themselves! HT accessories just might be the ticket!)

Mas: I remember the Esalen bunch down the road when I was back at DLI (Monterey). Come to think of it, they had to be heavily into "audiophile" stuff, what with sitting around saying "hum" and "ohm" alot.... Took a tour there but no luck for dates with hot liberal intellectual chick babes (we wuz desperate in the day)..... Referred to me and my buddies "neanderthals", etc.... Our feelings were hurt (yah right!!) But we had the beer and the hot rods...... So we just headed on the road to Big Sur. Much more fun..... "Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end...."

[Daddy Dee]

sberger,

Roller blocks under speakers? I wouldn't think this would be helpful or even make a significant difference. Think about it. Some audiophiles think they need to couple the speaker to the floor. Others say they need to decouple the speaker from the floor. How much difference could that make? So I tend to be a skeptic on things like this. I know all too well the power of subjective comparisons and how something "should" sound better, especially if the tweak is expensive.

One of the links is for a product that would isolate source gear from vibrations. This would make sense, if vibrations are a problem that the device corrects. That's a big if.

Just my $.02

[jacksonbart]

The roller pucks psychological beneifits on the sound that the listener perceives from the speaker that they are positioned underneath will be directly related to how much money the listener parted with to buy said roller pucks. Actually I think you need to dig a depression in your floors so that the hieght of your speakers remain unchanged while using these fabulous listening pucks. I heard they were developed by Aliens, the same Aliens that built the pyramids. They left a few boxes behind near the Nile. Makes sense really I mean if you're going to be working outside seems at least you should be listening to some music. Anyway supplies are limited so you should act fast. They can also be used for street hockey.

[sberger]

This is dumb. Sorry, but a legitimate theory is posted in a credible forum by a very credible music professional, and rather than credible thoughts, all we can come up with is dispariging remarks covered up by nitwit humor.

Really, if you have nothing positive to add, don't threadcrap. The question was asked in sincerity, and solicited sincere response.

Geez, I thought the Klipsch forums welcomed discussion on tweaks and upgrades.

[jtkinney]

"Legitimate Theory", "Credible Forum", "Credible Thoughts", they said that about this forum?

Oops, I misread that, "nitwit humor" and "dispariging remarks", that sounds more like it.

This is the kind of response that you get when some thought from a "Credible Forum" is considered bogus by other non-credible or incredible forum's. Unless your crossover is microphonic, the chances of a speaker re-radiating anything coming in from outside the box is unhearable. I don't have proof of that, but I work with random vibration, acoustics and shock as it is applied to launch vehicles and space craft, and that won't work. The only thing those roller blocks will block is HF shock and HF acoustics (which don't have enough energy to do anything anyway). The speaker cone itself is isolated from the box quite well (or the box would become the radiator), so it doesn't need any more help.

Just my opinion. Sorry about the nitwit humor, it helps us through the day.

[Arkytype]

When one reads the supposed benefits of the Rollerblock, you have to wonder. Just what the heck does "better harmonic separation" mean?

From the Symposium website.

http://www.symposiumusa.com/rbjr.html

Sonic Benefits
Proper installation results in increased transparency, dynamics and musicality, properties which include better harmonic separation and reduction of vibration-produced excessive sibilance. Further, one may expect to discern greater clarity between instruments in the sonic field, and better defined bass performance with more accurate timbral balance.

Application
Rollerblock Jr. is effective with virtually all components, especially digital sources (CD players and transports), preamplifiers, and amplifiers, but can also be used to isolate and couple entire shelves and platforms, turntables, power supplies (including AC "line conditioners") and loudspeakers. Rollerblock Jr.'s virtues, like the original Rollerblock Series 2, are subtractive in nature. That is, rather than attempting to compensate for an existing problem or deficiency in a system through the introduction of new resonance, Rollerblock Jr. is designed (as are all Symposium products) to remove the cause of resonance and distortion. Footer devices and accessories should not create another problem by adding a new resonance; many will thicken bass and lower midrange with artificial bass overhang, lending a false "warmth" and impression of superior bass, which eventually becomes fatiguing, damaging timber accuracy and transient response of the entire music system.

Wonder if installing these under my Toto toilet will reduce threadcrapping.

Next thing you know, someone will propose that we elevate our signal and speaker cables to improve clarity, detail and resolution. Wait!! Someone has... http://www.shunyata.com/Content/products-DarkField.html

Lee

[jacksonbart]

Sorry in all seriousness the Rollerblock jr is pure crap Now if you are talking about the Rollerblock sr. well that is a real rollerblock and it does work well for street hockey as well.

[Groomlakearea51]

This is dumb. Sorry, but a legitimate theory is posted in a credible forum by a very credible music professional, and rather than credible thoughts, all we can come up with is dispariging remarks covered up by nitwit humor.

Really, if you have nothing positive to add, don't threadcrap. The question was asked in sincerity, and solicited sincere response.

Geez, I thought the Klipsch forums welcomed discussion on tweaks and upgrades.

sberger: In same order as your post. There's no question as to the theory. Good theory. It's the claims by purchasers as to the efficacy of the object used to implement the theory. Likely as not, however, I would submit that while it probably "works" (albeit at the sub-sub-sub-micro if not quantum level...), it does not justify the cost. One could easily take two pieces of wood (or metal), a ball bearing, and do the same thing.

Disparaging remarks? Oh well, at least they are delivered with nitwit humor. All in good fun though. It's what keeps some of us sane (don't go there....)

Look at it from the viewpoint of how others see these "tweaks", particularly in that if they were that effective, then (as an example), Klipsch would include a set for their Palladiums....

It's sad, but true that there are folks out there that will sell "snake oil". Are the roller blocks "snake oil"? Nope, none of us would probably go so far as to say that. If I lived in a place where HF vibration was a major issue, then maybe I'd look at isolating the vibrations..... But I doubt I'd pay for a "commercial" solution.

The analogy is going into an expensive restaurant. First, everything on the menu is outrageous. So I order a bologna sandwich. When all is said and done, it may be well "packaged", rave reviews, etc., but it's still a bologna sandwich, and the restaurant and the marketing genius behind the menu have sold it as the greatest snack of the century. So when we make "remarks", it's really the frustration we feel when we sense that good folks are being "parted from their money" for no real legitimate reason.

Are we threadcrapping? Not really. We're just questioning (with our nitwit humor.....) whether or not it's worth the money. In this case, and evident by the august, learned and downright hilarious opinions so far, it's not.

Welcoming discussion on tweaks and upgrades? Absolutely, but in the context of a tweak, the roller blocks are probably in the 0.0001% category as far as a general observable (and thus any measurable) improvement. From another viewpoint. We can spend about $5 on some thick rubber matting, or washers, etc. and other vibration isolation materials and achieve the same effects. Rave reviews notwithstanding..., where's the facts? What level of attenuation was achieved with a known level of vibration present before the roller blocks were installed. We need facts and numbers. Rave reviews are subjective, and while alot of the "audiophile" experience is subjective, in the case of rollerblocks, etc., that's an expensive piece of subjectivity. After all, our money is pretty objective....

Not flaming you at all. Please don't think that. You were bold enough to post the thread, and by consequence you opened the door to some "oblique" humor. The nitwittiness comes not because we doubt that you are a reasonable intelligent person, we're just presenting another viewpoint that (subjectively....) pretty much explains why ads for such devices are "nitwitted" on ocassion. Besides, we can't resist it....

Nitwittiness... Huhm... I like that!!! Mas, where are you old chum? I can't find my nits!!! Lil suckers escaped!!

[Daddy Dee]

I thought my response was sincere and not thread crap.

If you pick up on these and they make your system sound better, more power to you. This is about being pleased with your system.

I hope to read your take on the results.

[sberger]

It was. Sorry, I certainly was not referring to the few sincere posts here.

[Macho Nacho]

sounds like an S Burger

[sberger]

woo hoo we're all having a good time now, aren't we?

professer it's yer turn!

[sberger]

sounds like an S Burger

i remember my first beer also, dude. go easy. that first hangover is a *****.

[dtel]

In my personal opinion a couple of beers would add more of an improvement over the sound than the Roller Blocks.

But that's just me I would not worry about what little difference they could possibly make, doubt you could even hear a difference .

[Groomlakearea51]

In my personal opinion a couple of beers would add more of an improvement over the sound than the Roller Blocks.

Finally.... a measurable test....

First beer.... "Hey, that sounded pretty good"

Second beer... "Sounding great, crank the next one up a bit...."

Third beer..... "Wow dude, play that Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap again..."

Six beers..... "Hey, your system is really great, best I've heard!!. Hey, let's strap those roller ball things to the bottom of these chairs and do some roller ball disco to the Devo Whip It track at volume 11..."

Twelve beers.... "Fnork, bleep, Dr. Demento rules!!! Pass that keg hose now under penalty of death!!! We better go get Bubba out of the pond again...."

[Arky]

That sounds like a party Marshall.[D]

[Groomlakearea51]

I can picture the "real" party as it progresses.... after about beer #6 or so (or earlier if we get out of hand...), my wife and dtel's wife come out grab us by the ears and shut us down. We wake up later with our roller balls where our eyeballs are supposed to be.....[]