heresy vs cornwall (message sent to klipsch no response yet)

[jeverett]

Can anyone give me an objective rationale as to how klipsch can charge $2000 more for the cornwall then the heresy? I admit I could be way off but it seems to me the only difference is the cornwall uses a little more mdf and a slightly larger woofer, maybe some slightly different crossover parts. Labor wise I can't see much difference they both seem to be simple boxes the only difference I can see is one is sealed and the other ported. How much does it cost to drill a hole in a board?? Maybe it is just me but I can't see the justification in the price difference!

[Hifi jim]

Probably something to do with the oxygen free copper wire used internally on the C3's. I hear it's the directional type, and more labor intensive to install.

[pmsummer]

Partly (just partly) for the same reason a Lexus costs more than a Toyota built on the same platform.

Partly for marketing positioning.

Partly to recover the extra R&D costs of the Cornwall III over the Heresy III (the Pro line absorbed the R&D with the KP-250).

Partly because it DOES take longer to build, and they pay their workers a living wage in the USA.

...and because they are worth it. The Cornwall remains one of the best "values" of any high-end speaker on the market.

All IMHO. I'm sure someone who knows what the hell they are talking about will give you a better response.

[LoudnClear]

Note that the Cornwall III has a 15" woofer and the Heresy III has a 12" woofer. While that doesn't justify the price difference, it is a difference you didn't note in your simplified comparison.

The price difference is partly "material based", partly "labor based" and partly "performance based". The Cornwall III are a much more capable loudspeaker than the Heresy III. You have to hear it to believe it.

Kimball

[djk]

No company makes a lot of money on the smaller models, doesn't matter whether it is cars or speakers. Klipsch is no different.

Years ago Klipsch was wondering why we sold far fewer Cornwalls that the average dealer.

The answer was we sold more LaScalas, they are very labor intensive and not a big money-maker for Klipsch.

Klipsch would have been happier (and made far more money) had we sold more Cornwalls instead.

The Cornwall really is a good value (compared to other brands) and can stand the higher mark-up and pay for R&D and overhead on other products (not unlike the Ford F150 in that respect).

[WMcD]

I just can't agree with your description of the differences. There is certainly four times the material and four times the labor and three times the shipping costs.

It is hardly a matter of just drilling a hole in a board, either.

Wm McD

[oldbuckster]

I own both Heresy 2's, and Cornwall 1.5 ; BOTH are excellent speakers, but put them side by side, in the same room, with the same power source, and the difference becomes quite clear ............ Heresy's put Sweet Music in the room .......... Cornwalls fill the room with sweet music .....

[Tony Reed]

It also costs more to ship the Cornwall.

Tony

[Colin]

old, but smart buckster, has it right:

Heresy's put Sweet Music in the room .......... Cornwalls fill the room with sweet music .....

[Coytee]

I'm not speaking on behalf of Klipsch but that strikes me as the type of question that might go lower on their priority list. (it would mine)

Question: Have you HEARD them both? I'd suspect not because I'd think if you had, you'd better understand the difference in price difference in terms of sound.

[djk]

"I just can't agree with your description of the differences. There is certainly four times the material and four times the labor and three times the shipping costs. "

The difference in driver cost was about $12 a pair (at the time), the difference in plywood cost about $60 a pair. Labor is about the same. Shipping was paid by the dealer (unless a huge order was placed). The retail price difference does not reflect the differences in cost.

I'm not complaining, I'm just saying this is a normal business practice.

In the place I work now, about 100 people in one building produce about 85% of the company profits. Enough to carry all the other buildings and 8,000 people. For the last two years I was working on a stop-loss program. I was able to limit it to about $1K loss per unit, $2.4M for the project. The year before, the units I built brought the company a profit of about $50M. I get the same pay either way.

[arfandbark]

Buy the Heresy speakers.

Don't listen to Cornwalls and you will be happy.

[jtnfoley]

There is no commodity in a free market whose price is driven by production cost. Not one.

The price of a given model of anything will be driven by the prices of like-positioned commodities in their market space... The aformentioned Lexus LS250 was an overdressed Camry, but was substantially more expensive not because the leather seats and fake wood dash inserts drove the production cost up. The ES250 was $7,000 (IIRC) more expensive because it was marketed in the same slot as the BMW 3 series and Mercedes C class.

THe rules for monopoly, megalopoly, and oligopoly (from memory, from Principles of Microeconomics 15 years ago) differ only in who gets to set the price... Oligopoly (the opposite of monopoly) is pure supply and demand: If 100 dairies in a given market produce milk then the price will be as the market demands.

Megalopoly (a very few, very large producers of a given commodity such as automobiles) vendors are able to sway the market with advertising and marketing and thereby set the price.

Monopoly will be whatever price the monopolistic power thinks they can get away with.

[fenderbender]

Well just goes to show that the Heresy III is one of the BEST values out there!!!! Amazing little speaker for an amazing price........As far as the Cornwalls....Well they are Cornwalls! If you really want to make your self crazy go and listen to some Klipschorns [6][6][6]

[WMcD]

Okay, I'll admit that there are more factors than what are, probably, somewhat small increases in labor and materials relative to the ultimate selling price. What the market will bear is certainly a big factor. Also price-volume sensitivity.

But why gripe about Klipsch?

Go to a steak house. The big, prime piece of steer may be $50 more than a pork chop. The only difference is what the butcher charges and it ain't no $50. We don't even want to speak about wine.

We've already heard about automobiles. Same basic story.

At one time I was buying business suits for personal wear every year. The better ones were two or three times as expensive as the bottom end. The manufacturer's cost of better material and construction couldn't be anywhere near that. All from Hartmarx.

Wm McD.

[bkrop]

Try picking up one of each by yourself, heck try wrapping your arms around a cornwall to attempt to lift it!